Macca

I agree, we need to get Kozzie into the play and he is good enough to handle it The trouble with giving him a spell is for how long? Finals aren't far away and we need to get him into form Ditto for JVR ... Brown knows how to play the deep forward role but JVR needs some space to run around in Against the Blues we played him up the ground a bit and he looked impressive It's an early call but he looks like a CHF type to me ... not in the traditional role (not yet anyway) but more in the T-Mac mode

Hey, it's nothing personal, Gorg And it might look like an agenda but I can assure you that it's not. He's a good player who makes a few errors But here on this site, you'd be thinking that he's a poor player with all the disparaging comments that are thrown his way Delist? Dropped to the 2nds? Trade? It's all overeactionary nonsense Are we not allowed to disagree on the worth of a player? In my world I like to challenge opinions and like to be challenged in return Don't you argue with your mates about footy? (or sport?) Your initial comments provided a vehicle for me to give an overall assessment of Brayshaw's game And that overall assessment means that he does a lot of good work (that barely gets mentioned) You could have been anyone, so don't take it personally. Ditto for DS Right now, the crowd's view is lopsided on Brayshaw ... he does not get enough credit for all his good work If we were talking about a player who barely gets the pill along with continually making errors, it's a different argument But that is not Brayshaw He has been copping a hard time from numerous posters ever since he came 3rd in the Brownlow ... and I've only recently joined in with a contrary view So what's the big deal? ... god forbid that I'm prepared to support one of my own players

Right now, the heat is on Kozzie but we need him playing well if we're going to contend A spell in the 2's might help but only to improve him (not punish) I'd move him up the ground in a high half forward role (first) See if that helps as more touches can increase confidence. Centre bounce stoppages as well? Not all but maybe half of them ... with Oliver out and Petracca forward (periodically) we've got a chance to get a few players into the game If we can get Kozzie getting 20 touches, that will help the team JVR is another who may not be best suited for that isolated forward role (Brown is better suited) so we could put him at CHF in a roaming capacity (a la T-Mac) So against the Lions I'd bring in JVR to play the aforementioned role and use Kozzie further up the ground.

So what do we call you? Demonland's chief whinger? You've got a history of lashing out here and you pot players constantly. And your criticisms are over-the-top and uncalled for If you had your way, we'd struggle to field a team. Just allow your own players to make errors because after all, they are not trying to make mistakes Believe it or not, they are trying their best League-wide, there is not an abundance of AFL standard players. There's certainly no excess either So teams are filled with non elite players and many players who aren't even at B grade level. Errors are therefore going to occur ... in an abundance Are you a perfectionist? Because if so, you're following the wrong sport

People don't rate the Brownlow but we do rate Brayshaw's 3rd placing in the Brownlow Since that podium finish, many here have had very high expectations as if he has to play to that (questionable) standard To me it's a furphy and I never thought that he had that good a season in 2018. Played well but 3rd best player in the league? I don't think so I put him in the same category as Hunter, Grundy, Rivers, Bowey, Hibberd, Sparrow Jordon, McVee & Langdon Not elite and not A grade Our elite players are May, Max, Petracca, Viney, Oliver, Salem, Lever and maybe Fritsch (for his big match qualities) And I'm not overdoing it on Brayshaw ... those who are, are constantly potting him here on a near daily basis Just providing a little bit of balance Footnote: What is glaringly obvious about all the listed players above is that only one of them is a forward To win the flag we might have to leave Petracca forward (periodically) and maybe think about using a player like Brayshaw forward (at times) as well He's already proved that he can play a number of different roles ... attacking midfielder, defensive wingman, holding midfielder and at half back. Why not forward? Greg Williams played as a permanent forward in the 1995 GF

Hilarious You're getting desperate now DS I'm still waiting on your detailed error analysis. And don't leave anyone out, even your favourites Do you have favourites? You certainly have a multitude in your gunsights I'll remind you that you wanted to dump 7 players after the narrow loss last week That's what is best described as a complete overreaction But that's what you do

As others have said, use the mute function or just ignore I've always just blocked out the noise

I also believe that many here view Brayshaw as a player who should not make errors He's very sure with his disposals once he gets into the swing of things. But he is often quite scratchy early (like a lot of other players) But that's Gus, that's who and what he is. He's not pure A grade so he's going to make errors like all the other players But for whatever reason, his errors get called out more so than anyone else. It's quite a perculiar viewpoint but it has happened to other players previously Notably Sylvia (RIP), Moloney, Watts, Tyson, Toumpas, ANB etc etc. None of whom who were ever A grade players Just one out of the box at a time

Yesterday was better but for the last 2 seasons, from an overall perspective, a number of our forwards have often played from behind So it's about what is going to happen in the future. Are our forwards going to be well equipped against the best teams? And can we consistently deliver the ball well into the forward line? (again, against the best teams) Time will tell, Kev

See there you are doing it again ... exaggeration to try and prove your point You are prone to exaggeration and embellishment You're like Demonland's shock-jock So would you like to point out all the errors made by all our players yesterday One by one will be fine I'd like you to do that as it would effectively highlight how Brayshaw is never our chief culprit with regards to errors So do your best work, DS

Further to the skewed clanger count ... why should a player who is kicking the ball to his teammate be registered with a clanger if his teammate is outmarked in a contest? It's a load of nonsense as the player kicking the ball often has no other choice but to kick it to that player (pressure/congestion etc) Now, if it's a misdirected kick, that's a different story So, often a so-called clanger should not even be registered as inefficient (to the disposer of the ball) The player who is receiving the ball (but not winning the ball) should be the one copping the heat A great example are forwards who play from behind. That is a massive error and if that was registered as a clanger, some of our forwards would have large clanger counts

For the benefit of @DeeSpencer @Gorgoroth (and numerous others) Clanger Count 57 Notables Grundy 5 Viney 5 ANB 5 Sparrow 5 Jordon 5 Brayshaw 1 By the way, I reckon it's perfectly fine to point out the errors made by players but, context must be provided and a consistent argument put forward as well Also, the good play from the players who make errors should be acknowledged as well. Do that, and you will be applying fairness Face it, it's an error filled sport and all the players make errors week to week. There's a lot of pressure & congestion and clean disposal to another player is often a difficult task. Plus, the coaching wants the players to take risks So, in my view, kicking the ball down the line and not taking a risk inboard is in many ways a clanger. It's certainly (often) a wasted disposal Dump kicking the ball to the forward pocket instead of taking a risk and passing to a forward? To me that's often a clanger and another wasted disposal So the DE rating/clanger count is skewed anyway as not enough nuance is applied Thankfully, our forward connection yesterday was improved. However, we still have a long way to go in order to have a terrific forward connection Against the best, our delivery into the forward line needs to be at least very good Again, from an overall perspective Brayshaw played a very good game. He was one of our best ... however, he's not perfect and makes the odd error But those errors are often blown out of proportion and often exaggerated. Other players get off the hook for making the same types of errors

So they finally took to the field at around 2.00am AEST Could go through to 4.00am or thereabouts Australia currently 7/168 holding a lead of 194 with 20 overs left in the day (unless rain intervenes again) So we've added 52 runs today but have lost 3 wickets in the process Just need to get as many as we can but Wood is thundering in with his express deliveries Edit (1) Aust 8/170 (196 lead) Edit (2) Aust 9/211 (237 lead) Edit (3) Aust 224 all out (250 lead) ... which included a terrific knock to Travis Head (77) England to bat for 25 minutes tonight (5 overs)

I reckon JVR playing at CHF tonight would have been ideal. Playing on a dry surface with a licence to get up the ground whenever applicable We missed an opportunity to tune him up for the Lions encounter Kozzie stays in despite an average performance tonight ... upside keeps him in but I can understand it if he is given a spell Trouble is that it's Brisbane next. We need to present our best possible side And we have to win the encounter if not just for the confidence it can give the group So JVR in at CHF with Melksham to play a Fritsch-type role. Brown out of the goal square However, if we stay with Petracca forward (periodically) then we might go with the same set-up ... I'd find a spot for JVR regardless And the 3 smalls need to hit the scoreboard ... only 1 scoring shot between the 3 tonight was unacceptable

Will we play Petracca forward again next Friday? Brayshaw at the stoppages was very good (dropped back behind the play after each stoppage) The forced change ended up being beneficial to both players as Petracca seemed to enjoy himself scoring 4 goals When Oliver returns we may take the new roles into the finals

In agreement on the above 7 And if all 7 played to their best, we win by 10+ goals To win the flag we can't have too many players not at their best ... and we weren't playing against the best tonight either St Kilda had 5 of their best 15 not playing We did play quite well but too many passengers for a team that's ultimate goal is the premiership

Well, we played well enough to win and I felt we held them at bay and were always going to win But was it an impressive performance? At times we looked terrific but we didn't play like a team on it's way to another premiership And that's our new standard. Par excellence, not ok or reasonable. To win the flag we need to be great After the Collingwood game, we haven't seen great. We've seen average, poor kicking at goal and a decent win tonight. But great? Not sold on the make-up of the forward line, for instance. Our 3 smalls had 1 scoring shot between them. Brown was ok but JVR needs to join him up forward. Melksham was ok but is he the long term answer this season? I'd rather van Rooyen Petracca forward was innovative and not within time. Something needed to be tried But we'll need Petracca in the midfield against the best teams (unless they leave Gus in for the stoppages - was good tonight) Premiership teams are more often than not outstanding for a decent amount of games in the season-proper. Often for a large majority of their matches Some of us are looking for that sort of football, not just above average or quite good Happy to win of course as a loss would have been disastrous

Can we beat them again? We can if we get to play them again But if you think we've got their measure, I'd argue that we haven't. Not yet anyway If we can defeat the Lions next week, I'll be confident that we can secure 4th spot and the double chance Lose, and we're back in the ruck. 11 & 6 vs 10 & 7 might not look that different but it does when you're endeavouring to be a true contender Another loss after that and you've lost 8 in the season proper. How many premiership teams ever lose 8 or more games? A lot rides on next week with regards to our real prospects and our season-proper record. We need another big scalp

The DE rating is flawed but sometimes quite relevant. Other times irrelevant If the disposer of the ball wasn't punished for the error made by the receiving player then it would make more sense So, I use the DE rating but do the mental correction (eyes) to get to the true number For instance, the 2 or 3 errant Brayshaw handballs early in the game did not hurt the team at all. But other times (like every other player) the errors can be costly Also, if the coach is instructing the players to take risks, then errors will eventuate It's like umpiring errors, they are going to happen whether one likes it or not But we've got bigger fish to fry. We are not playing like a premiership contender. We did against the Pies but in the other wins? And the 6 losses tell a story too I'm still holding out hope that we can bring our best consistently but we need to see it

Kozzie could be dropped but my point is that dropping him does not fix the defiencies elsewhere So the 2nd half of my post is totally related to the first part It's about the team overall, not potting certain individuals. It's a team game, not tennis or golf. So the issue is the team's overall output Does that make sense to you now? Or do you prefer the sacrificial lamb? Actually, after the GWS loss, you wanted to dump 7 players. Haha!! Words get recorded on the net, DS

We really should have put the Saints away early For fleeting moments we look terrific and then we lapse back to being just average It's like we put our foot down for a bit and then ease off But to win big the pedal has to be flat to the floor

Maybe, but Kozzie isn't the problem alone Even if he had have played very well, we've still got deficiencies elsewhere We are not going to win the flag with that sort of overall output. It's enough to defeat average to good teams but the best? So, as always, it's all about the team, DS It's not about any individual For instance, Brayshaw was good early and finished off well but made a few non-costly errors early in the game. But he can play better, no doubt And he is not on his own because it's ditto for at least a dozen others including our 2 ruckmen

Did they? If they all had have played to their best along with the rest of our players, we would have won by 10+ goals Average output from too many. 5 or 6 played very well but we are not playing at our best I'm projecting through to September and the 3 teams we will need to beat to win the flag. Tonight's performance won't measure up in my view

To be fair, ANB, Spargo, McVee, Melksham were quiet as well. A few others got the ball a bit but didn't impact The rucking combo and the lack of impact around the ground by both is still an issue. Good conditions for the big-boys too And the turnovers! Far too many given the conditions We are playing like a team 6th - 8th, not a supposed premiership contender Big test next Friday and only a win will suffice. We've now got a buffer sitting in 4th spot and need to defend that position like a top 4 team should Any sort of loss will be unacceptable

It's a mystery Gus is playing well now though hey? ... getting that DE rating up after 2 errant handpasses in the first half