Macca

What we do know is that a 50 metre penalty can be awarded for infringements after the final siren ... usually with regards to the man on the mark infringing in some way But with the new dissent & abuse rulings, a 50m penalty can be applied in that area (after the siren) As for last night, it seems the benefit of the doubt seemed to go with the Swans player but is another umpire in a similar position going to rule in the same way? Who would know? Technically, the Swans player could have been pinged if the umpire did believe that the player was deliberately transgressing Just another grey area with an accent on interpretation

Technically should 'probably' have been a 50 metre penalty but again, the rules are grey, the rules are not clear cut (so everyone understands what is going on) and because of that, the decisions are inconsistent It's now got to farcical levels where most people are totally confused with the officiating And soft free kicks aplenty. High contact being one of those soft areas. Just one example (1 of 10-15 similar) was the high contact free kick paid to the Swans player in the last 2 minutes of the game There was nothing in it and the decision should have been play on ... and if the players know that in advance then that particular 'play' could have been played out in an entirely different manner (without the soft free kick being an option) There are far too many free kicks being awarded anyway ... they could halve the number and it would still be too many

Yes

Soft5 now and improving ... very little rain predicted and Eagle Farms drains well Could be a Good4 at best so it doesn't look like we'll get a heavy track Had a small wager on Polly Grey but Polly likes it wet ... how far Zaaki?!

I noticed that 9GemHD are showing the Champions League Final live from 4.30am Good news for those who haven't got cable or one of the myriad of streaming services needed these days Should be more of it too ... if the FTA stations are serious they need to get hold of more big time sport. All of the golf majors instead of just the Masters for starters! Channel 10 are showing the A League Final live from 6.30pm tomorrow night (7.45pm kickoff) ... Melb City vs Western United Straight after our game vs Freo

@Dee Zephyr@Gorgoroth @Mr Steve Big day at Eagle Farm tomorrow - Super Saturday!! 3 Group races from the washed out Doomben races added to this Saturday's Eagle Farm card so we end up with 3 x G1, 2 x G2 & 4 x G3 and a listed race. 10 races in all Excellent fields and some very good betting races - value aplenty A perfect lead in to our game vs Freo Good luck if you're having a wager

An excellent system/game plan with loads of talent is a sure-fire way to success But our all-over defence cannot be understated ... without that all over the ground method, there would be gaps for the opposition to exploit So we've got all the key elements for September football. The other good teams don't have all the attributes And Salem will add a lot when he returns ... but without him we're 10-0!! Should have been All-Australian last year as he ticked every box and had an A+ year (in a Premiership team)

I spent a lot of my early years in Kew & Ruchmond so most I knew back then were Tiger fans Everyone I knew back then were on the Demon bandwagon ... the tears flowed after that Prelim but I knew we'd get more chances as we had a very good team ... trouble was that there were a few teams in that era (Hawthorn included) that were a shade better But Coach Northey had us up and running and it was a terrific 5 years where we won more games than we lost ... and after all those years of misery, it was great to be a contender at last But our current team is a complete outfit so the expectations are to win big. This year especially! I was involved in a lot of success at local level so that probably explains why I can be a little matter of fact and philosophical about sport (when it's all out of my control) Que sera sera ... and being a West Ham fan, expectations can never be too high. All the same, all things considered, we had a very good year As for the Champians League Final, there will be a lot of sentiment for Liverpool ... they play a style that is very watchable and Klopp is very well liked. Really like listening to his musings!

I was at all the games but my view of the prelim is a little different. Disappointed of course but still proud that we had progressed so far, so quickly after at least 2 decades of mostly miserable times In the prelim we had a gale force wind behind us for the first 3 quarters back when having a strong wind behind a team was a big advantage. People used to talk about having a 5 goal advantage (in a quarter) ... the sport has changed so much So we had every chance in the prelim. If we'd won, the wind advantage would have been a big factor. And the wind died in the last quarter. The wind switched at quarter time and then at half time ... at Waverley, you were out in the open so you could really feel the breeze. It was uncanny, we thought the gods were with us Anyway, we went out on to the ground after the final quarter and I'd pinpointed where Buckenara would have been if he didn't receive that infamous 15 metre penalty ... I reckon I might have kicked it!! Buckenara surely would have Better team won

We had a version of the EPL's last day in the VFL when all the games were on at the same time (Sat 2.10 approx) The most memorable for Demon supporters being 1987 & 1976 but even in 1988 we needed to defeat 2nd placed Carlton in the last round just to make the finals ... ended up in the GF after winning 3 finals to get there! But I recall there being a number of finals teams shuffled about in the last round ... and back in the day, the wooden spoon was to be avoided at all costs!

As I said, I was paraphrasing but it was words to that effect. Might have been 'Do that and we will go a long way towards winning the game' Fairly sure it was one of our midfielders who said it ... and it was almost a throwaway line thus I've only recalled it now

If Langdon is declared fit along with Viney, I can see a situation where the last man in is the first man out In: Viney Out: Dunstan But anyone with a niggle might be rested (or may not be) so I won't be surprised if there is a player out with some sort of ailment

Can't remember which of our players said it (sometime in the last month or so) but it was words to the effect of ... "The coaches have told us that if at least 16 players play their roles as well as they can, we can't lose the game" I found that to be a fascinating approach and I also found the statement to ring true In many of our games in the last year and a half we've had at least a dozen players who have played very well ... often reaching the magic 16 figure. And why 16? Can anyone verify what was actually said and who said it?

Further to that, Watson11 We also employ the forward press on many occasions when the opposition are trying to clear the ball out of their defence. A smother or misdirected kick often results and therefore, a turnover in our favour Carlton don't really play that style ... their method is to attack hard to try and score and that method will win a lot of games against average to mediocre opposition (they do possess good skills) But we play September type pressure footy ... the Blues look like they are at least a year away from contending in a real sense. But only if they become a more complete team

The Blues are a reasonably good team on offence but they don't play total team defence like we do. In fact, they are nowhere near our levels in that area On top of that we have a stellar defence against their quite-good forward line and our midfield shades theirs from an overall perspective Our forward line against their defence is more of a line-ball match-up but they'd do well to keep 2 of Fritsch, Brown, T-Mac and a resting Gawn or Jackson quiet. And our small forwards continue to apply forward line defensive pressure Match it all up and we win by 6 goals with the big difference being our overall defensive pressure. They just can't match us in that area

An amazing finish and when City were down 0-2 in the 75th minute I thought draw at best ... and at the same time the Reds were level with Wolves but my thinking was that Liverpool would score again and win 5 minutes later Man City were 3-2 up and Liverpool was still level with Wolves ... the rest is history!! Meanwhile Leeds & Burnley were fighting to stay alive in the Premier League. Leeds scored in the 94th minute but Burnley could have scored again and a draw would have kept them up (if the Leeds winner doesn't eventuate) When we have these scenarios it's 2 of the best hours of sport. High drama and high tension So it's 5am Sunday morning for the Champions League Final in Paris Liverpool vs Real Madrid Should be a beauty!!

Our forwards (as a collective) will need to play better against the better opposition that we are going to be up against in the next block of 4 games On Saturday there were instances of some forwards playing from behind or not creating enough separation to present as targets A good example was when Petracca was bursting forward with no Demon to kick it too ... he hesitated and then got tackled from behind. Opportunity lost Another time Brown got caught out playing from behind and then ended up giving a free kick away. But Brown usually gets to the front position. There were probably at least another 6 standout examples and each time we gave up an opportunity to score. Various forwards were involved. As previously stated, more so as a collective. 74 inside 50's resulting in 14.16 is inefficient in my view I'd like to believe that we just had a bit of an off day up forward but we probably should have slotted at least 20 goals against North. And the connection between our mids & forwards needs to be first rate against the good teams By contrast, our defence and all over team defence was excellent once again. North didn't take on the corridor which played into our hands, but that's their problem

I reckon game day and perhaps the next day it's ok to vent ... footy is an emotional game and we are heavily invested But days later? In the same way? But here's the thing ... you dare not take the opposite view or a different view here. It's like an unwritten law to tow the line in a certain way I can see why others don't bother but the other side of the argument deserves to be seen and heard Before I started posting about the umpires there was a former VFA player here who used to post up against the tirade of umpire abuse His catch-cry was always 'You don't have a game without umpires' but he got zero support. Gone now but he was a very good poster and his footy knowledge was immense He was the voice for a long period of time and he used to speak on my behalf! haha

A hobby horse of mine for over 10 years on this site ... must have mentioned the farcical high contact ruling at least 50-60 times over the years Under Neeld we at one time during a match had a 3-22 free kick count against the Eagles ... nearly every free kick was for high contact or in some cases, holding the man The Eagles players were dropping their knees and shrugging their arms up all game to accentuate the high contact So it's not a new thing And you are the first person to speak in the same way (that I've seen) In fact, I've probably mentioned it over 10 times lately on this thread and a few other recent threads about the umpires But, because of the protection of the head and the expert way that players milk high contact, only draconian measures might fix things ... retrospectively ping the stagers and rub them out for 3 or 4 weeks and that can help Can't see it happening though as if they were going to take such measures, they would have done so by now As for the other grey areas, I truly believe we need a more open game to help reduce the grey areas. And many don't want any rule changes so we end up back at square one

Just about every ruling you highlighted has some degree of grey area attached. Some more than others In principle, it would be great if we could make every rule clear cut but I don't like the chances The game has changed dramatically, way less 1 on 1's, congestion aplenty and numerous players in one part of the ground on a constant basis Rules are being exploited by the coaches and it's a way more complicated game By no means am I giving up but in practical terms, the league has a gigantic uphill battle in terms of making the sport easy to umpire

You are right, the rotations changed the way the game is played. And fitness levels are far greater too Back in the day there was a thinking that we needed to play on larger ovals ... Waverley was a great example of what was seen as the future of the sport Seen as overly big for quite a while and then later seem as a great big ground, perfect for footy (logistics on how to get there and get out of the carpark was a separate issue) Docklands was embraced early and now it is on the nose. So it's gone the other way to Waverley

So what are your 10-15 solid rules? Genuine question

Watch any game closely with an eye on high contact frees as a standout ... but beware, it will probably do your head in once you see how many soft frees are given for high contact - again, a laws of the game issue, not an umpiring issue. The umpires are just acting under instruction It's bigger than the holding the ball free in my view but with regards to that ruling, I agree with Buckley and a few other ex players. And that is to dispense with the 'No Prior' ruling. Wouldn't fix things completely and we might have unintended consequences but it's worth a try ... right now it's a mess. Again, not an umpiring issue ... that's just blaming the A-end of a problem And the soft high contact free kick is only going to get worse because of (A) The head being sacrocanct and (B) Players becoming more adept at milking high contact free kicks

The biggest grey area is the high contact free ...I'm not at all blaming the umpires but I often see 10-15 free kicks paid for high contact that shouldn't be paid (a laws of the game issue) High contact frees should be paid when the neck and head is deliberately targeted Not for incidental contact Great! One less person quoting me with inane reasoning on umpiring

Rubbish You don't know what you're talking about But keep up the whinging, see how far it gets you