Hannabal

That's all he can do. And obviously it's the reason why every respected judge of junior talent in the country doesn't rate him.

The 'Shinboner Spirit' is so overrated it's not funny.

Well aren't you a wealth of information. Thanks for sharing. Insightful.

If so he's the shortest 194 cm player I've seen.

It's abou time that you and all Melbourne supporters learnt how to spell his name. And while I'm at it it's Wonaeamirri.

I'm not sold

I find Demetriou's remarks completely unnecessary. He's there to run the administrative side of the game and let the clubs get on with puting on a spectacle. If the prospective crowd numbers are worrying let our club and President drum up numbers for the match. If he wants to sound warnings to individual clubs then do it behind closed doors. Frankly, he should shut the fug up.

According to research Melbourne ranks as one of the best clubs at converting supporters to members based on our nationwide supporter base.

100% Correct.

You say that our list management has been terrible yet in the face of a great opportunity to make the most of the upcoming draft when we're likely wooden spooners you want to take the conservative approach and sit on your hands. The scenario you give of off loading Bell or Dunn is futile. We wouldn't get a cold pie for them. The Sylvia and Green deal you suggest may do the job, but doesn't appeal to me. I want a 10-15 pick, not 20+. I reckon we come off worse there. And Davey ? I'm suprised you even ask the question. Of course he's not A grade. And I doubt that anyone has whacked him more than me on the forums over the last 3 years. But that doesn't mean that I don't consider him presently a more valuable commodity than Rivers. Things change Jaded. Two years ago I thought that Rivers was top 3 importance on our list. Things change.

The Dees could play finals in 2011 - 3 years away. They could give top 4 a shake in 2012. And they could possibly be in contention for a flag in 2013 onwards. Last time I looked that's 5 years +. Why do you refer to 7 years all the time ? The likely window is 5-7 years, as stated ad nauseum. And there will be a progressive rise all throughout that time - obviously. But now, yes now, we are in a position to plunder the best talent from a draft that is supposedly brimming with top 20 talent and is the least compromised draft for the foreseeable future.

Last year was 70,660. I'd be surprised if it's not 70k+ again.

Rivers is a B grade footballer who is perhaps not as suited to todays quick rebounding game as others, especially when he's limited to playing on certain types. So, if you want another first round draft pick as you say, but won't trade a B grader, how do you propose getting that pick ? Btw, no one is advocating being crud for 5 years.

Firstly, Geelong haven't finished bottom 4 since the AFL commenced in 1990. Secondly, Geelong won the 07 flag on the back of the 01 draft. It took 6 years. Thirdly, it was stated that we won't be a realistic flag chance for 5-7 years. Now you may think that we can win a flag in 3, and you'd be a fool. Fourthly, supporters that won't consider trading B grade footballers, such as Rivers, for a first round pick deserve to support a crap side. Btw, I think he's a very good footballer and that's why he may yield a first round pick, although his injuries for 2 years have probably ruled that out. Much depends on how our recruiting dept rates the top 15 picks this year.

Rivers may be a contributing member in 5-7 years, but I believe that he's dispensible for an early draft pick. I also believe that with the pace of the game combined with his lack of pace, and the fact that there's certain players he can't matchup on cos he can't keep up on the lead he's worth putting up. If he stays terrific, we'll still have a very good defender. I'll paint a picture next.

How the fug do I know ? Get your tea leaves out.

Why is Tragic dreaming when he talks about Warnock. Most Freo supporters are resigned to losing him, he's not getting a game at Freo, he's a Victorian who's out of contract, we will most likely have first pick in the preseason draft, and his brother is at the club. It's hardly a pipedream. Fwiw, I reckon Warnock has tonnes of ability and at 21/206cms he's a fantastic prospect.

Our recruiters will do an exhaustive analysis of the top 20. A decision to trade any player will be on the back of what they perceive to be the likely outcomes. If they're shaky on what will be available they'll tread cautiously, if they're bullish on the first round talent they'll throw a few bones. Facts about Rivers: he's hardly played for 2 years; he doesn't take the oppositions best forward; he's too slow on the lead for Riewoldt/Franklin types but also he's not a KPP. I think that Rivers is a very good player, but he's hardly indispensible when we're rebuilding and a minimum of 5 years from being a genuine threat. I must say though that I wouldn't trade Davey. I have issues with him as a player, but more than ever with the changing face of the game and his ability to take the game on he's a valuable commodity.

I understand the angle that you're coming from, but you'll find that very few clubs will go down the Dennis Pagan path. Jonathon Hay will also be top of mind. We need to rebuild and have Morton, Wonaeamirri, Grimes, Maric, Jones, Petterd, and Bate coming through with 4 of the best kids in this draft. No quick fixes for me. I'll cop 3 crap years if I know that the light at the end of the tunnel isn't a train.

There's no doubt that Rivers inability to get on the park may impede his value. I'm hoping for a solid last half of the year. Let's not forget that Cameron Wood got Brisbane pick 14 last year.

You may be right. But we need to find out.

The real dilemma is that nearly all the players you mention have little value at trade table in terms of quality draft picks. That's why Rivers appeals. As you know, it's not because I don't like him, or rate him, it's because he has value. Some here seem to think that 3 picks in the top 20 is good, and it is, but we should be trying for at least another.

Last time I looked Rivers was 23 - 24 in October. The problem is he'll be a slow tall back of about 30 when we're next a realistic flag chance. And MacNamara, or someone else may be be keeping him down at Casey. The good news is that at 23, and still a good footballer, he may get us another first round pick. We need one.

I'm only advocating trading Rivers, as Jones is important to our future and Bruce or Green won't yield a top 20 draft pick. As others have mentioned, you can't trade all your experience. We haven't been in our current predicament for over a decade. The previous times that we've traded out players for early teen picks have been through either them wanting to change clubs, go home interstate, or for salary cap reasons. And during each trade period we've been topping up the list believing that we weren't far from a flag - if we got a couple of things right. Things are different this time around. We are in total rebuild mode. And yes, the youth need to have some experience around them, but we won't get another oppotunity for years to make the most of our current position at the draft table. I'd try to maximise it. As for you saying that you "want the club to look hard at winning 8 or more games next year" ? What do you think they were trying to do this year ? Become a laughing stock for the fun of it ? Bailey now knows where the list is at, even if many supporters don't seem to. I expect him to make some challenging decisions in October.

Firstly, I very much doubt that we'll be playing Finals in 2010 and secondly, I couldn't give a fat rat's clacker whether we are or not. Playing Finals footy no longer gives me my jollies unless it culminates in a flag. We played finals for 6 years out of 10 under Daniher - big deal. When we next enter the Finals foray I want it to be as a genuine apprenticeship for a flag and not more fool's gold.