nutbean

Not really hard is it....

Still may be the worse ? That's the way - keep waiting for everything to play out - then you can look back in the rear vision with more confidence and criticise. That's a pretty easy gig. Fiasco ...pfftttt...

Stringer is looking a good bet too - he went one pick after Toumpas - why aren't you incensed at us not picking him ? ( you must not rate the doggies recruiting either as they passed on Wines as well - I would say their last 3 drafts have been very good). The same people who shouldn't have been doing the damn job picked up Hogan in the same draft... hmmmm I need to stop engaging with you on this as there is zero logic to your argument and all emotion. I understand that a draft pick has not met expectation and others taken later have proven better footballers but copious amounts of hand wringing and emotion is no substitute for logical argument . edit - I do wonder if the doggy fans are jumping up and down on Macrae over Wines - Macrae has had some moments but is no Wines. And SOS who is rated so highly needs to his butt kicked - none of their first three picks have come close to Wines output. To me this biggest question mark in that draft is not Wines but how on earth Brodie Grundy slipped to 18 ?

Revisionism at it's very best. Not some rated higher - all rated Toumpas higher ( including Jack Viney who had the benefit of playing with both Wines and Toumpas). The likes of Quayle forming opinions - she watches, she talks to recruiters, she talks to the TAC clubs - there is some research that goes into her opinions as to how players are ranked. What does that even mean Toumpas over Wines made sense on paper but Wines plus Viney was a no brainer ??? Jumping up and down about Toumpas over Wines makes as much sense to me as jumping up and down about Tapscott ( and Scully/Trengove/Gysberts) over Fyfe

uggghhh.... banging.head.against.wall. Again - you have just answered you own question. "we had the best info of anyone"....spot on - we did and we didn't throw it away- we used it - that's why we picked Toumpas. The information we had at the time has turned out to be plain wrong - Why is that so hard to understand ? We have had done due diligence on so many footballers - as have many other clubs - on what were considered the best footballers at the time and they also proved wrong.

The only good thing about ready made players is you somewhat know what you are getting. I like a combination of both - ready made and draft picks with the big disclaimer that any 18 year old we draft may be a bust. There is just not enough exposed form.

You really don't want to know why as the answer is and always has been right in front of you but you simply refuse to accept it. At the time of the draft with all that was known it did not look like a bad decision but now we know every bit of expert opinion was absolutely wrong. As Macca has said - it is a flawed system but I fail to understand why you are so flummoxed as to why we took Toumpas. Here is Emma Quayle pre draft 4 MELBOURNE JIMMY TOUMPAS (Woodville-West Torrens. 18, 182cm, 78kg) Goal kicking wingman who likes to run. THE RATIONALE: Toumpas is a class act; a humble, hard-working player able to cut teams up with his skill and scoring ability. He’s just what the Dees need. THE COMPLICATION: Melbourne has been watching Ollie Wines, a diligent, competitive onballer for a long time. He’d be a good choice here too. Paige Cardona had us taking Wines at 4 but GWS taking Toumpas at 2.

So if you disagree with the "experts" then you agree with the same punt that was taken on Cook and Strauss - taken well before their rankings ? You can't have it both ways. You either go with the "collective wisdom" which Toumpas was or you take who you think is going to be a winner against "collective wisdom" - Cook and Strauss. Either way we have been burned badly.. You say Todd was privvy - you would think that Jack Viney was too and he stated plainly he would pickToumpas but didn't think he would be available at our pick. So someone who had played with both and had insight selected Toumpas as well. What does it tell you ? It tells you it's guesswork. I am still tipping that one of Brayshaw, Petracca or McCartin will be a bust as one of the top three has underwhelmed in most drafts.

punters fail to realise that all the recruiters have to go on is very limited exposed form and have no insight on how they will mature and turn out. We go with selections that we right at the time - Morton, Toumpas ( although he still has little time to prove himself), Sylvia, McClean, Scully ,Trengove and they turn out to be a bust. We punt on selections - Cook and Strauss who were considered to be taken well before their ranking and they turn out to be a bust. Damned if you do - damned if you don't.

to your point - the dogs certainly don't have the talent of Sydney - but they brought the effort for the full game....

again - i challenge you..... Please point me to one "expert" who rated Wines at draft time higher than Toumpas - just one - anyone - Ill take umm just one. Now I agree that the so called experts expertise is questionable at best. But the whole industry is working off limited research and prevailing opinion was that Toumpas was rated higher and to borrow a phrase from you - "that is fact". You can whinge all you like about this abomination of a decision but the bottom line is that this is all retrospective and the decision looked right at the time. Happy for you to whinge about the likes of Cook who was taken well ahead of rating. I have officially given up on the experts as they are rarely right.

I can help you there. "because at the time of the draft he was considered a better prospect" There you go - not that hard is it ?

I don't think that was ever in doubt. At this stage of our development we live and die by our effort - if our effort falls away as it did in the last quarter we will get blown off the park by most.

I agree with this but I have seen this mentioned before - along with spending the same amount time on refugee problems and other domestic and international issues. I'll ask the question - is campaigning against the death penalty and also involving one self in a myriad of other issues mutually exclusive ?

Absolute key in my opinion - knowing the balance. Bailey probably too soft. Neeld - the carrot and the stick - he knew the stick and not much else and lost the players.

He could have done the lap no problem if he could just done a full preseason.

I am actual happy with current outcome with the proviso that the drunk idiots are held to account. I think the Clarkson apology is correct - he is not apologising to the idiot drunks - he is apologising for his inability to handle it better.He had a choice to keep walking as he was approaching the lobby of the hotel but he didn't. Seeing the footage - he reacted - but did he overreact ? Do I understand him blowing his cool - yup - the idiots were very provocative and really in his face and apparently we are only seeing 5 seconds of something that transpiring for much longer than that. Was the force disproportionate ? borderline - but I think no. However....to those saying he should have knocked him out cold or broken his nose - makes me shake my head in disbelief.

I compare how we handle our relationships with the way NZ handles theirs. It is obvious the reason we tippy toe around Indonesia is because of their very integral role in the flow of refugees, the attempt to balance the growing influence of China to Indonesia and co-operation in anti terrorism ( with the largest Islamic country being on our doorstep). Now NZ took a stand on nuclear weapons and will not allow their ally, the US, to berth their naval vessels in their country - and this affected their relationship...how ? I know that the US is a different animal to Indonesia and we should not overreact but we need to control our relationship with Indonesia - not be controlled.

I may not have used the word "leaders" but even during the Daniher years ( especially in his later years) we celebrated making finals as huge win instead of seeing it for what it was - being in the top 50% - just a pass mark. Through all parts of the club there was not a commitment to excellence which is what I think this current regime is striving for. I don't think the playing group was challenged to continually better themselves and to be the best they could be. There is a reason we have had so few "champions" - I believe we had an attitude of close enough is good enough. You named Yze and White as leaders - good servants of the club - but mentioning them as leaders says it all. I don't think Robbo was far off the mark in his article.

Mixed messages makes for a better negotiation for the player. Howe says he wants to stay and the manager puts it out that there is large money on the table for a move - IMO there is a single message - Howe wants to stay but at a price - I have no idea of what that price is.

Players sign early, players put off negotiations. We trade in players, we trade out players and we ditch some altogether. I love all the players with the knowledge that they come and they go. The Scully debacle has left me an emotional vacuum.

pick 53's are speculative at best. Tom has turned out to be a great late pickup. Let's hope his brother does as well..

that is , when he doesn't kick to the fat side so the leading forwards can catch it...

We haven't had a small forward who can get the ball let alone have shots on goal - his problem at Carlton was not his goal kicking - it was that he didn't get the ball enough - in his best season 2011 where he kicked 48 goals he averaged 12 disposals a game. His is getting his hands on the ball which is great ( his figures are a little inflated as he is having a few runs in the midfield). JG is not a worry for me.

As an aside - I like Dunstall as a commentator - I think the call that he made a career on the Dermies Shirt tails is way off the mark. (I also think he is the one commentator who actually has a bit of a soft spot for us)