nutbean

you have got to be keating yourself.

I think I've jumped off the Jackie Watts Bandwagon.

Being skinny is not Toumpas's problem... Toumpas's problem is that all he was represented as, as an 18 year old - has to this point been misrepresented. He could play outside and inside - win his own ball, good skills, kick goals and great work ethic - I haven't seen it. At the time of the draft there was a mark against Wines for his kicking - I haven't seen too much wrong with his footskills to date so that appears to be wrong as well. (there was a knock on Scully's kicking too - and it was apparent - although he has worked on it and it is much better now)

you mean skinny little Nick Del Santo ?

so Billy Stretch is a mistake ?

Bingo - now you are getting it. And that's why we took Toumpas and Morton. Because AT THE TIME they were considered the right selections - we now know otherwise. At the other end - Tom McDonald was considered speculative at 53 and he has turned out fine. Drafting on form - a snapshot of a player purely at that time - that's all it is and that's why so many draft picks don't pan out.

Are you saying that Sylvia wasn't a goer when he was drafted ( incorrect - read what was written about him at draft time - absolute monstered the TAC competition) or he didn't turn out to be the goer everyone hoped he would be ( 100% correct ). Travis Johnstone and Cam Bruce are looking fine in comparison to how many for us have turned out. drafting is a raffle.

Morton over Cyril ! another nice piece of revisionism. That aside...apart from the untapped talent that these kids have - even when Hawthorn was struggling they had something that we have never had. They had a solid well run club with good coaching structures in place - they didn't bring in kids from the draft to be messiahs - they were allowed to develop. I mention Gunston as a drafting coup - he was a kid with a far bit of talent - but he was allowed to grow as the Hawks third tall behind Franklin and Roughie. Jesse Hogan is 6 games into a career and is our number one forward target by a long way - no pressure on you kid ! Simple analogy - put a young healthy plant into crap soil and watch how their growth is stiffled.

or David Mundy or Jed Adcock.... Just playing the game - cherry picking from who we didn't draft. I agree that we should get a quality player with a top 10 draft pick - bottom line is that the history of the draft shows that just isn't always the case. pick any draft at random pre 2010 - and have subjective fun rearranging the order with what we know now and it will shock you 2007 - 2 out of the top 10 in hindsight would be in the top 10 2008 - 2-3 out of the top 10 ( have a look at the rookie draft - some absolute gold in there) 2009 - 1 maybe 2 out of the top ten

well argued. Viney's a snot nose kid who played football with Toumpas in SA - so he would have seen him first hand - as opposed to the experts on the board ? Now tell me how drafting powerful ready to play onballers like Sylvia and McLean worked out for us ? I'll ask you and all the rest who want developed contested ball type footballers - I am assume you will lambast the club for taking Billy Stretch ? Absolutely scream outside mid. What about Oscar McDonald who body is at least two preseasons off being ready for AFL ?

First of all - it ain't hard to walk into our team and be in the top 5 or 10- but to suggest that these have all been good footballers and worthy of top selection in the draft is fanciful . If your grading is who was on par of better than their draft number - You could make a case for Didak and I would suggest we need more time for Scully, Day and Gaff. The balance have been underwhelming as top 10 selections.

All who could walk into our side and be 5 to 10 players at their peak and you find Macca's analysis deceiving !!!

The term outside mid is used in a disparaging way. The description of kids that are hard and win contested football run and spread with speed describes Toumpas to a tee at under 18 level. You keep hearing the same thing - plays inside and out - tremendous work ethic, hard working. He has shown any of this at AFL level - sadly no but that doesn't rewrite what he was showing at draft time.

Just a reminder of what was written about Toumpas at the time of the draft - it just goes on and on. It shows me one thing and one thing only - Where you are drafted is purely a snapshot of your worth as a junior and doesn't reflect how you will make the transition to AFL senior ranks. This nonsense about his attitude - because you make someone with poor attitude and work ethic the captain of your state..... Has he produced what we would have liked ? absolutely not - but this nonsense about "why did we draft him " is revisionism at its best. Hard-working wingman will be reliable funnel forward for the Dees. Kicks goals and oozes leadership. Surprise he dropped out of the top three. Jimmy Toumpas didn’t get to take part in the Draft Combine after having surgery on his hip at the conclusion of the National Champions; however, that hasn’t hurt his draft prospects. Capping off a standout season, Toumpas took home All-Australian honours after captaining South Australia in the National Championships and was noted for his high ball-winning abilities and tremendous work ethic. Jimmy Toumpas is also an AFL-AIS 2012 graduate. A well-rounded midfielder will complement the growing wealth in the centre for the Giants. Toumpas will join the likes of Whitfield, Coniglio, Greene, Smith, Hoskin-Elliott and Tyson as first-round draft picks in the midfield, which will make GWS a very scary proposition for other teams in a few years time, if not now. Toumpas is deceptively quick, which may surprise a few teams next season. He uses the ball by hand and foot excellent, can play inside and outside, while his poise and endurance are superb. Toumpas is a little bit like Jimmy Bartel, in that he is excellent in the clinches, lifts for big games and can play through injury, as highlighted by his performances throughout the U/18 Championships, when he had a dodgy hip. But unlike Bartel, Toumpas possesses great speed, which makes him a great pick for Greater Western Sydney, rounding out their midfield.

Ahhh -recruitment principle - recruit best mates - now there's some science for you.....(Jack Viney opted for Toumpas over Wines when asked - so I am not sure he agrees with your principle). This idea that he begged us to pick him - pleeeasseee...that is media driven nonsense. When a player is touted as going to a certain club - they always talk up the club.

Absolutely and comprehensively wrong - there are that many busts in the top 5 it makes your hair curl. I think it is fair to assume that in any given draft one or more of the top 5 draft picks may not be of any value.

Josh Kelly - played some ok football - too early to call Jonothan O'Rourke - traded already ....... Coniglio - good footballer but 2013/4 not in the top 10 B&F Harley Bennell - I love his best but he has a way too go to be a top footballer because he doesnt do it often enough Jack Trengove NicNat - played a couple of good seasons - still underwhelming for mine Cotchin - really good footballer Scott gumbleton - hmmm - injuries cruelled him Dale Thomas - flashy - then a couple of great seasons for the Pies struggled with form and injuries since Not so simple for mine.....

Bingo - the biggest myth in the AFL.... The history of every draft tells you otherwise.

So it isn't rocket science ? The same team that took Luke Parker took Jed Lamb with their first pick. They also took Lewis Johnston The same team that took Ollie Wines took Butcher with their first pick ( touted as a number one draft pick) The same team that took Dustin Martin took Tyrone Vickery with their first pick The same team that took Steele Sidebottom traded for Cameron wood for a 1st round draft pick The same team that Brayshaw..well do i need to go on Rocket Science huh ? you want a player that makes an immediate impact - good luck with that - each year there are around 80 players drafted - of that you can count immediate impact players on a regular basis on probably two hands - around 1 in 10 chance.... As to the attributes you want of a football -fairly obvious. And again on you revisionism - Toumpas did check the boxes THEN. The same as most of the highly touted youngsters tick the box in the TAC. That he has not produced it at AFL level is not restricted to Toumpas. If you take the top 20 from Toumpas's year - 7 have failed to impress - you can include the 2 picks taken before ours. So yes...it is actually rocket science with some tattslotto thrown in for good measure

I'm an unabashed Linkin Park fan so I like anything that Chester does. If anyone gets a chance in the future ( as the tour just finished) - Courtney Barnett is great live - she absolutely rocked the forum.

Tell that to the Warren Commission.

I have very eclectic taste in music but don't think I delve quite as wide as Hardtack. I go to about 1-2 gigs a week - new stuff and old. Very little I won't go and see. ( i draw the line at boys bands such as one direction !). I go to the caravan club a lot ( it is about 2km from me) and it always has very interesting stuff on - I mentioned I saw Pokey Lafarge - I had never heard of him but we had nothing on and i liked his name and the look of him on the website - my girlfriend even took her own car as she knew nothing about him and was sure she would leave early. We were blown away - best gig of the year. Seeing Steve Poltz and Ryan Adams I know pretty much zip about either of them. Seeing Dave Graney soon and trying to coax Hardtack on coming down to see him !

The voice is still ok. The antics - unchanged.

How bad is Rohan Bails disposal ( see what I did there ?)

Nah... he will either make it or not - it ain't about the jumper he is wearing