nutbean

Nope, I feel dirty after reading this. Whilst some may shout "pyscho-babble" - look up the word sociopath ( or prior to 18 years old - conduct disorder.) Irrespective of labels - she has some severe issues which have been exacerbated by her treatment. I would love to see what she gets up to in two years time because I have grave fears for her making it through the next two years.

There you go - we are in violent agreement. Sorry to take you to task - but what you posted here makes 100% sense ( except I think we are now front ending contracts to give us room when our youngsters hit their peak and are worth more money - I think I got that right) - this post is a wee bit different to what you originally posted. Tom heeding management advice ? absolutely !

I hope I have shown some logic in this whole 1000's post thread. The only thing I am dimissive of is the premise that Tom Scully really wants to sign with us but his management won't let him. Can you imagine any contract that takes the decision making ability away from the footballer and gives it to the manager. I cant think of anyone who would agree with that. I have said on this site countless times - I fully appreciate his managements stance on delaying and I even appreciate Tom heeding the advice of his management but please spare me the idea that Tom is saying " if it wasnt for my damned management I would have already signed by now" This is the only part of the post I have a problem with "toms management putting off contract negotiations not tom. Tom would re-sign if he could he said." Give me a break.

Take note of the difference between your first post and Keyser's last post. That he may want to sign and get this over with but he is heeding the advice of his management - I have no problem with that premise But to state as you did - that he wants to sign but his management won't let him is a nonsense. Dustin Martin signed early, Marc Murphy signed early. Managers answer to players not the other way around. Make no mistake that if Tom Scully wanted to sign right now it would be done. As much as it kills me, I understand why his management is advising him to hold. It is easy for me to understand that he may want to sign, it is easy for me to understand what his management have told him and it is easy to understand that management are looking to get the best possible contract. Unless I misread your post - you were trying to make it sound like Tom Scully had no say in the matter - I completely agree with Keyser in that he is "heeding the advice of his management" - after all, thats what you pay them for.

Not on behalf of Jill - on behalf of the kid. We all have read exactly what she has done and have read what she has reportedly done as well. Does she know what she is doing ? Well she is doing it but can we not see that she is so in over her head that its not funny ? I cannot get away from the fact that she is 17. This is not an excuse - it is an age where kids do stupid things. The maturity difference between 17 and 24 is ( well should be !) immense - let alone 47 ! There is a moral duty of care to this kid and to all children and make no mistake - she is a child - not to take advantage of her because she is star struck - blinded by the football celebrities. I could drive a car at 13, I had a political opinion at 15 - but I couldnt legally drive or vote until I was 18. There are lots of things we can do at early ages - like give our bodies to footballers - but that doesnt mean we are emotionally ready to do it. Her behaviour is showing that she is ill equiped for the situation she has found herself in and she has found herself in this situation in no small measure thanks to footballers and a manager who should have acted towards her in a better manner.

The role of the player manager is to get the best deal for their players as opposed to our perception of them - "holding the clubs to ransom". I listen to Liam Pickering who I find measured, not too big headed and does the best not to make himself more dislikeable than his profession already makes him. Then you have Ricky Nixon who has craved the spotlight since day one has a highly inflated opinion of himself and has unwittingly ( because he is an F-wit) gone out of his way to be obnoxious. I still havent forgiven him for the bake he gave us during the our search for our last coach. I cant quite remember who he was representing but we got down to the last three which included Bailey and Sheedy and maybe Connolly - and we had cut his candidate. He got on the radio and declared our process a sham and unprofessional and wanted us to stop the process and announce what everyone already knew - that Kevin Sheedy had the job. Right again Ricky ! He has done everything in his power to make himself disliked and I have little sympathy for anything that happens to him now.

I'm a fan of Joel Mac - however I think this idea of him or anyone as a HBF is a moot point. I dont think there is any player that is any position these days. Everyone is set a task - we dont have a centreman or ruckrover or rover anymore - we have 6 players running through the midfield. We have Watts playing high up field and then out of the goal square. We have Davey behind the ball, on the ball and in front of the ball. We have Frawley minding the full forward ( Reiwoldt) one week and then playing in pocket against the small the next and Joel Mac is no different. He gets allocated what the FD considers suitable tasks. He has played full back, CHB, back pocket and HBF in equal measure - just depends who they play him on. I beleive they will use him in a backline shut down role and try to free up Grimes to be the play maker.

This makes sense - deferring to his management - as long as someone doesnt try to sell me the pup as stated earlier, that he would sign now if he could but he cant because of his management. I would think that any footballer would like this sort of thing out the way but it makes perfect sense to defer to his managements' expertise. It just doesnt make us feel any better

That also makes me doubt the veracity of the claim. Tom is acting on the advice of his management. If he/his father wanted to sign today , like Marc Murphy, it would be done. This idea of a player wanting one thing but not being able to because manager another ( even though the manager will try to maximise his earnings by getting the biggest pay for his client) is an absolute nonsense. I would be very surprised (horrified, shocked, mortified) if any footballer aged 5 to 50 would sign a contract that would take the decision making ability out of their hands. Sorry - just don't buy it.

I'm thinking Giantology can well fit ADC into their cap.

We are actually agreeing except the downslide did not start with the contract his manager won - his downslide started with him playing up to expection of the massive contract - whether that is fair or not is the question and has been debated endlessly here. Judd signed the most massive of contracts - he is performing. Playing to expectations - thats the difference. But remember his first 2 months where he was unfit there was some unkind articles both on his performance and Carlton overpaying. Subjective and retrospective

Not saying it was Woey's fault at all - all I am saying is that whether we overpaid or underpaid can be judged on the return we get and this can only be judged after the event. Let me go way back in time - we got value out of Peter Moore and way overpaid for Kelvin Templeton - who knew at the time ?

Not sure if this was the last win there - but I was down at Geelong when Templeton had a day out ( one of the few)and we had a win - it was a never before experience so we didnt know how to react ! No one said a word on the drive back to Melbourne - we never had experienced coming home from the Cattery happy !

maybe ! what if he doesnt recover from the injury ? subjective subjective subjective - but I do think we are on the same page.

We have only overpaid those that havent performed to the expected level and unfortunately that has been a few too many. Davey also held out for more coin last contract but we havent complained about him as he has provided good value. We complained about Cam Bruce because we dont think he did give value for money. Subjective and requires crystal balls.

Paying over market is such a subjective thing - based on how Woey plateau'ed we paid over the odds for his last contract - he never really improved from his brownlow year in fact he was less damaging probably due to the extra attention he received - but lets look at Greeny who also held out for a better deal on his last contract his first year into his new contract - fabulous and now he is captain and has really stepped up a gear. Has Carlton overpaid for Judd ? - probably not on the basis of his first two years performance. A crystal ball would a handy addition to my armoury

wraps schmaps - I hadnt heard anything about any of our picks - I will say that the two youtube packages that excited me most was Howe - for his marking and what looked like X factor ( albeit in Tassie) and Davis - he looks very calm and assured in defense. I was making judgment calls on two minutes of youtube.

I like a person who takes a position !

If the reason for the contract delay as being reported is that the manager wants to see what unfolds at year end regarding new TV deals, etc etc as a manager why would you lock in before you knew what the outcome was. Are you suggesting that if there is an XX% increase then Tom get XX more - very messy way of handling the situation. All negotiations are a gamble so I am also more than guessing that Velocity are also banking on him improving his rating and his value this year not going backwards ( a gamble - second year blues ?). Signing a heads of agreement with all sorts of riders in it based on what the AFL might do is a messy way to go. I do know that contracts have all sorts of incentives - B&F placings, goals kicked, number of games..etc etc but to try and factor in the AFL unknowns is not pretty.

Have to disagree with you. I love to win and losses just arent acceptable. I am never satisfied with losses but there are losses and then there are LOSSES. Against the bulldogs I hated that loss - so close - they worked so hard. As much as it hurt there was still that voice in my head said - geez we really gave it a red hot go though. Against the eagles - we didnt give a yelp - looked disinterested and half hearted.. When I take this down to a player level - MacDonald will make some poor decisions but in the main they are ok. He will turn the odd ball over - so do a few others - but he plays every game at the Bulldogs game commitment level not the Eagles game. Players have quiet days - MacDonald never has a game where he is quiet commitment wise. If every player on our list played at his commitment level I doubt we would lose a game as their are so many others on our list who I can say are infinitely more talented but who I can also say dont show the same intensity..

In a different post someone also mentioned illness.

I question sylvinator on the Scully wanted to sign but his management didnt - like all managers, lawyers , accountants etc they act on your behalf ( unless its illegal). That just doesnt hold water for me. Here is a rhetorical question - more a rhetorical thought. It was reported in the velocity change of management article that they had/were going to speak to Tom and his father. How much influence does his father have ? His father is not at the club 5 days a week training and making friends with the other players. I know that the club does schmooze the immediate family but it is easier for a father to divorce himself from the emotion of a decision than it is for a player. My logic again tells me that it would be easier for a father to be more influenced by financial inducements rather than the young son who experiences the mateship of the almost full time career as a footballer mixing with your team-mates. I'm not being mischevious ( and will cop a blast i am sure !) - just making sure this topic is talked to death.

My posts on this issue I think have, shown me to be sitting right in the middle - I have no idea on what he will do - I am confident that we have the people to sell the dream and hopefully put a great offer forward - will it be enough ? i dont know. But I am hoping and praying that he will stay and will be patient and wait for the outcome - I wont get hysterical. What I will keep re-iterating is that chatter from BOTH sides means nothing.I would expect Bails to say nothing less. However this is the same Bails who said "Cameron Bruce is a professional and I expect to see him at training on Monday"

I missed hearing that story - hysterical - rates up there with the comeback to Glenn McGrath when he sledged a SA fast bowler who played and missed for the umpteenth time - "Why are you so fat " the reply came " because everytime I sleep with your wife she feeds me a chocolate biscuit"

I dont think he will ever be a carve you up or kill you with creativity and disposal type footballer. But his approach to the contest would have all the boys thinking - this is one guy we want to go to war with.