nutbean

How could you watch family guy ? pfft

I think my brain hurts

I can fathom the biggest reason for him to hold off - bargaining position. Whilst I hate the idea of being held to ransom - do you think his value has gone down from a month ago ? The longer this goes on the more dollars will be on the table. The problem is the spotlight is shining square on him and I would hate to be under that sort of pressure. I suggested 10 pages ago that Colin Sylvia is unsigned as well - again as his manager and for his benefit ( not the club or the supporters) could you honestly say it would be better for him to sign now - or let the season unfold show good form and have GWS and others sniffing around uncontracted players ? There is only one answer. Simple logic dictates that footballers whose star is on the rise are better to leave the contract negotiation to the last minute to extract the best deal for themselves. You really can't fathom why he wouldn't sign now ?

I agree with your logic that he hasnt signed. And I am blinded by greed enough to say I have no idea of which way he will go - huuuugggeeee dollars vs stay at home, play on the G and the Dee's are on the move as opposed to the wasteland that is GWS and a team that will be years behind us in development and success.

I put 119 words into your mouth - I didnt want to over-reach

I won't put words into E25's mouth but maybe elaborate as I see it What I know - I have no idea if he is going to go or stay What I think I know - Large money offer from GWS would be a very tempting reason to go - Lots of good reasons to stay - the home factor and the MFC going places factor and hopefully not too huge a salary difference What seems totally illogical to me and I just can't get my head around - A six year contract ? - $1M a season - the paper this morning (HUN) had it down to $800K a year - that just a lazy $200K difference - $3M front end loaded - wow - Signed up already - why ? just makes no sense to do so

I agree with all comments about players managers - except for a player to say I don't get involved or deny knowledge just doesn't hold water - at the end of the day any problem or issue falls to the player - when the manager sets up an arrangement that falls foul of the AFL ( and in particular the ATO) the player will wears it.Go back to all the footballers who had large tax bills arising from out of cap payments - their accountants werent charged the excess and fines- it was the players. If a player stood in front of the "camera's" and tried credible deniability " I didn't know what my manager was doing" I would suggest he would be absolutely lambasted by the media - and rightly so.

good post - I'm way too pragmatic - I fall into camp 3

Do I want him to sign now and all this to go away ? Yes - however all those asking for clarification - I would have thought that the statement made by his management, who represent him have answered all questions. 1/ TS contract will not be negotiating until seasons end 2/ TS hasnt signed a contract with GWS 3/ There have been no negotiations with GWS Whether we believe this or not is up for debate and as to the last point - I don't believe it or at least I don't believe that Velocity don't know whats on offer from GWS - but I think the statement was unambiguous. I dont need to hear from TS's mouth that he hasnt signed anything, I don't need to hear he loves the club and wants to stay but they are negotiating ( because I have all that before - I want to be a one club player and then a massive offer moves them elsewhere). All I want to hear from TS's mouth is that he has signed an extension. Thats enough for me

Incredulous deniability would be more like it ! Please point me to any statement made by any manager that a footballer has then turned around and said "Oh that was my manager speaking, don't take any notice of him - its not what I want to do - he speaks for himself not me". wow... There have been lots of rumours and stuff going every which way, however the one thing that I firmly believe is that when a manager stands up and says " Tom hasnt signed anything" then he is talking for Tom - thats what he is paid to do. I dont necessarily believe the statement, but credible deniability ?? Are you asking the board to swallow that Tom's management speak with an independent voice so Tom can say - pffft - thats my management speaking about me and not what i want or have done ??

Thats my point exactly - the Judd deal was done and dusted, signed sealed and delivered until XYZ happened. Which is why my horribly logically way of thinking keeps telling me to let the club do what the clubs gotta do and don't panic until there is something more than wild speculation to panic about. Are GWS in Scully's ear - I'm certain of that - until I see something more than the Eddie telling me what is and isnt fact - I am going to wait unperturbed until it unfolds. My horribly logically brain can't figure out - why sign now ? offer $1m per year ? 6 year contract ? it dont add up

Wouldn't you love to know. More defying of logic on 6 years - if you had a player that was "potentially" as good as Scully - would you be advising him to take a 6 year deal ? - at 27 maybe when you can have insurance against "how good will I be after 30" - however at 19 - wouldnt you be looking at 3 years to maximise a new contract at 22 years of age ? Doesnt make sense. ( I looked at locking in Frawley over 4 as to MFC's advantage not particularly his) And $1m per year - wow - just wow.

I think that they already have an MFC offer on the table too and it is probably not all that close to the GWS offer - but we also know how negotiations go - and if they are on hold they aint really going anywhere. I understand signing early to stay at a club like Murphy has done - it defies all logic to sign early to get out of a club unless you are desperately unhappy.

I have little doubt that his management have a fair idea of what is on the table - my question is - without direct talks with GWS however can you even sign a letter of intent ? Sit down with a proxie and sign a letter with him saying - when GWS come calling with an offer of $XXX I promise to sign ? My statement remains - if the statement is true that Velocity hasnt talked with GWS then I cant see that anything could have been signed. If it is an outright lie then who knows.

We all have short memories - I remember Eddie McGuire congratulating us on having Chris Judd signed sealed and delivered. I remember half the journo's in Melbourne reporting that it was a done deal for Demons.

Firstly I think for any player to say - "well it wasn't my statement - it was my managers" would be treated with the contempt it deserves - yup - I think it is picky. They are one in the same What has me intrigued is the part of the statement that says Velocity hasnt had any discussions with GWS - and before we start banging on about 3rd parties - I would find it hard to see a 3rd party contract being able to be signed without Velocity involved and GWS in there somewhere. Mark Kleinman really didnt need to say that unless it is blantant lie. He could have gone with "we havent signed anything but would be negligent not to listen" but to state that there has been no management discussion with GWS - I find that statement extraordinary. I find it difficult to believe that Velocity have no idea what GWS have put on the table. Therefore I think that there must something on the table from whoever but that would also lead me to think that nothing has been signed ( signing letters of intent with a 3rd party ?) Either people have got it really really wrong - or that statement is just a full on lie.

I posted similar on "ology" At the risk of causing a stampede (and it is not my intention), I don't believe Sylvia has signed a new contract ? I will delete this post if I am wrong. He is a game breaker and coming into his prime and one that I would have thought would be on the GWS radar. My question is to all of those who are adament we should be setting deadlines and giving ultimatums to Tom Scully/his management. Why arent we doing the same re Sylvia's contract renewal ?.(read - why arent we hysterical about him ?) Answering my own question - because the spotlight has not been on Sylvia and the rumours aren't circulating. In the same way that club has said they wont negotiate with Tom Scully and his management in public is the same that they would not negotiate publicly with Sylvia ( or Morton, Fitzpatrick, Gawn, Gysberts etc who are all coming out of contract seasons end) I am very aware that GWS has bucketloads to spend but I have faith that our management can sell the dream and retain the talent pool we have. The end result may be that we lose Scully or others but I dont think it will be because our negotiation approach or proposals are wrong.

Interesting parallels... I took note of the way Adelaide are handling their similar situation We've spoken to his [Walker's] manager a couple of times and the bottom line is they want to put it [his contract negotiation] off until the end of the year and we respect that," Harper told the Adelaide Advertiser newspaper. Obviously, it's not ideal for us but there's not much we can do about it. There's no use panicking about something you've got no control over. All you can do is try to talk to them about it and let them make a call from there. You can't force people to do what they don't want to do. I dont see anywhere written - tell us what you are going to do or you go and play for Norwood- No ultimatums. I also found this part interesting Adelaide forward Chris Knights made a similar decision to delay contract talks last year and ended up re-signing with the club.

Shows the measure of the man - Junior - the way he handled it Also shows the measure of the man - Bails - that he can put his hand and say - we didnt handle it correctly

mmmmmm... matzah balls......

I suggest we do as we are doing - negotiate behind close doors and not make it a public spectacle. Work to try and get a good outcome - not throw ultimatums into the mix that will do nothing but push the outcome in one direction only. Ricky Petterd was GC17 bound last year and Nathan Jones was all but wearing the black and red. We panicked about Jack Watts not signing. We negotiate and put our best case forward - he will stay or he will go. We have to sell the dream not send him to bed with no supper because he wont tell us what he is doing.

Bravo and well articulated.

Then what I would do is on-trade both these picks to GWS in return for Scully - no..wait....ummmmmmm

It may be a copout but it is how it is played and dont expect the playbook to be changed anytime soon - you hardly heard a peep out of Chris Judd even when he decided he was opting out. The ugly negotiations were left to his blood sucking manager. And contract and list management is not a core "footy" issue or the coach would be handling it - it is why every club has separate personnel to take care of this. This is not by accident. Of course Bailey has input but clubs keep them completely separate for a very good reason - contract negotiations ( as we can see) are usually protracted, heated and emotional ans when coaches get involved as Bomber did last year - then you can see the end result - Bomber and GA Jnr not talking for the best part of a year. As an aside - Baileys comments on this issue I think have been well crafted and thoughtful. He is RIGHTLY leaving it to others in the club to handle

Didn't go hard enough ? Are you suggesting that since Gary wouldnt commit you wouldnt have played him - firstly - how detrimental to the team - Geelong would have not made it to the preliminary final without Jnr's workrate week in and week out - secondly - EVERY footballer has to negotiate a contract with their club - setting such a bloody minded precedent ( you commit to us when we tell you or we wont play you) - well, good luck on keeping players at your club or even attracting others. I think you would end with group of players you didnt want and lose the group of players that you do ! Imagine the scenario you are advocating - we push Scully and he doesnt commit so we dont play him - when GWS come knocking at the door of our uncontracted players next year - seeing how we treated Scully - do you think the players will think - we had better sign up now for much less money and quickly as we dont want to be playing at Casey ? Ludicrous. The bottom line is that the contract has a year to run and it is the players right to negotiate at a time of his making - Frawley committed to four years early in the piece - Watts waited to seasons end. Different players, different managers, different agenda's. Contract negotiations are just that - negotiations - give and take. Backing players into a corner and giving ultimatums before it is necessary is rule one what not to do.