nutbean

I agree 100% - I think we have some real potential in the youth with little real leadership about the age 24-25 and fear the same as you do. I am torn between accepting patience required for the development of youth vs impatience for never accepting near enough is good enough and the time is now. Where is that line ? I, as you, do not want to see the glass ceiling we have been frustrated by for so many years.

as opposed to North Melbourne ?

We are pretty much in violent agreement - I did say to a certain extent a lottery - I understand that the recruiters get it right a lot of the time but history is littered with examples where they don't get it right - I also agree with the argument about how players are developed is very good debate because I question the past as to why our players over the past 10 years have got to a point of development and never developed any further. As to trading Scully for 2 first round picks - no thanks.

-1000000 no thanks Repeat offender - Im not talking about the crime that he was found not guilty of - I am talking about his propensity for finding trouble. For every troubled soul that makes good - Hall, Cousins - there is another that causes trouble at his next port of call Akermanis, Fevola. Let him have a fresh start elsewhere.

I dont have a low opinion of journalists but I do hold great store in the age old proverb "dont let the truth stand in the way of a good story"

Especially given his reply in the presser in March when he was asked "how do you resist the big offer ?" - see his reply.

In answer to your first question - there is no disctinction on evidence that can be presented in the two types of action. If a person is found not guilty of an offence in a criminal court they can certainly be liable for damages in a civil action. Criminal court verdicts are beyond reasonable doubt but a civil proceeding verdict is balance of probabilities. There are a myriad of cases that have gone from not guilty in a criminal proceeding to damages in a civil proceeding. The most celebrated case is O J Simpson - found not guilty at a criminal trial for murder but had to pay $33.5M in a civil case for wrongful death ( which he has paid two parts of nothing of)

Average life span of a footballer four years - go back through the drafts and look at picks 1-20 and clearly there are as many "average" footballers as there are A graders. And then we resort to , this player was picked before that player and we could have had this player before we picked that player. Bottom line is no matter how much science you put into drafting it is still to a certain extent, a lottery. I have seen Scully and his deficiencies I know what I am getting and as a 20ish game footballer who has played at the top level with his attitude and professionalism I am happy to crystal ball as to where he will end as opposed to draft picks. There's your balance A question - pretend for a minute that Tom Scully is going nowhere - all this is just a dream - another club says we will trade two first round draft picks for him - both being mid tier I believe - would you do the trade ?

Mick Malthouse has been touting the united line with Collingwood all season - and every Journo in papers and on the TV keep going on about how Malthouse and Buckley are at odds with each other. If Malthouse said "We have robust debates on coaching issues as is natural and healthy in a club. At the end of the day I'm the head coach and will make the final call. Thats not to say that a lot of Nathan's input is not being implemented. Next year I step down and Nathan takes the reins and as the coaching director I will support Nathan in everything he wants to do as head coach". Leaves the media nowhere to go. take home message - if something is obvious - dont deny it - acknowledge it, embrace it and put a positive spin on it.

I had it taped and now have watched it three times after reading the first half dozen posts and disagree with most of the critical assessments. I will concede Greeny didnt look natural in front of the camera's but I will bet my bottom dollar that he was sat down with the media manager and run through 100 possible questions he would be asked and in my opinion he fielded them well. Basic rule of media is if something is already out in the public domain or likely to get there dont deny it - take it head on and say "yup and its not a problem" 1/ The apparent unrest - it is obviously doing the rounds so Greeny, as all good polly's do, stared them down and said it was healthy debate on differing opinions that happens in all clubs - I have no problem with that. Or would you prefer "the Malthouse camp said this and the Buckley camp said that" which is in every papers and then Malthouse coming out and saying there is no tension between him and Buckley....right.... 2/ I thought he handled the Junior question really well - he had no option but to say that he was sad to see Junior go - he would be damned if he said anything else - but he then towed the MFC argument - retaining Junior would be at the expense of getting games into the kids. Apart from the fact he didnt look relaxed I thought he did ok

Ahh once again - the joys of retrospective drafting

Equal at best doesnt always happen either We are going to win on some, square some and lose some. The ones we lose will means we may have to make it up with a win elsewhere. Juggling at its best.

It was so tongue in cheek that I saw his tongue protruding through his ear

Not nicely diverted - its nice stated - and your answer says it all - intent - you can go Tom's way and signal little and or you go Chris Tarrants way ( I want to stay at Freo) and Gary Ablett's way ( I want to Captain geelong) and then do the opposite motive - we are all guessing as to motive so why even try Direction - similar to intent There is little emotion being shown here by Velocity in their negotiation stance and they are well aware of the emotional reactions this strategy is causing but there is still no logical response to why he has to sign now so there it is.

Did you not see my reply ? I would add two more comments Alistair Lynch Tom, you have done the hard yards by not caving to media pressure and committing - why cave now" And - if indeed he has committed to GWS and he announces that he will stop being played and will lose his match payments. I am not the flat earth society - I just think I am arguing with people who believe that all actions are ( should be) made with the club first and foremost to mind. Whilst my passion and emotion understands this and would love it be the case it is just not always so. I hate what this doing to my passionate side but I reluctantly accept it logic wise. Taking this argument to it's cold emotionless end ( and to the place where Velocity do not give a rats tossbag about our club - remember they are representing Tom and not the MFC) 1/ The offer wont get worse between now and the end of the season 2/ The offer could be sweetened the longer this plays out 3/ If he hasnt decided there is no downside to him not committing before the end of the season 4/ If he has decided to go or signed, lied whatever - then you have deniability at the end of the season " i just made up my mind as i said i would at seasons end" 5/ If he has decided to go and advises he loses match payments. Please give me a FACT as to why he should sign now - not from the clubs perspective or from the supporters perspective but from Tom's perspective.

And I have suggested previously that if I was his manager and Tom has handled all the heat so far I would be saying - dont commit now because there still could be more to fall out of the tree. Performances to the end of the year ? coaching position ? added incentives/sweeteners ( from either party ?) Alistair would rightly be saying " Tom, between now and the end of the season the offer aint gonna get any worse"

Highly unfair - besides the fact that leadership is not all about press conferences, we see Jack Trengove as leadership material because he handles himself well in front of the cameras and the only thing they want to talk to him about is Tom Scully. If I was Tom Scully I wouldnt be facing the press now either - he has said what he needs to say and thats it - all he would be doing is answering the same rumours differently worded and give the same answers.

Please change this to read "All of this is skewed because of the GWS factor"

The fact is the lad is being offered contracts based on potential. The subjective debate is whether his potential will actualise to the amounts he will be paid now and how quickly that will happen.

Never let the truth stand in the way of bad story. The argument on drawing parallels between White and 2nd year players going to GWS is just full of holes

Its' a good question - I wonder how most players feel about players moving on. They would harbour no ill feeling if they went for more opportunity but Beamer made his feelings known about Brock leaving. Besides Beamer ( who makes it clear how he feels !) I wonder how most footballers would feel about any footballers who leave their club for bigger money ?

And thats the point that is being missed. The Scully situation has reached fever point driven by the unique circumstances x media frenzy. The three main points 1/ This is not the first protracted contract negotiation 2/ Does the "uniqueness" mean that the club should treat the situation differently ? i.e sign now or nick off ? What is the downside for the club not knowing the outcome before seasons end and how does this affect the club any differently from other contracts finalised at seasons end ? 2/ This will not be the last and with FA coming in there will be a lot more of these frenzies as high profile high value players will be able to move with more ease than ever before

I actually really like Robbo - as he is not hard and fast and will say "i wasnt right on that" -he will give opinions of varying strengths - which especially plays out on the TV - he will be very firm on certain opinions but then on others he will say " i sorta think...." and with Scully he seems genuinely confused.

yes me too and I wont stop cheering him until he stops donning the red and blue and may that be in 16 years

And I agree with you 100% that you thoughts are emotive and so are mine when i say that Velocity and Tom could end this right now if they wanted to and it does cause me some grief - but it is their choice not to as it has been with other footballers. The major difference with Tom is this groundbreaking and unprecedented - a 20 year old first round draft pick, with less than 2 years under his belt has been offered a million dollars a year ( supposedly). There is the issue around why he was first round - compensating for us being crap , the issue of 2nd year players being targeted and one of the first contracts ever offered on pure potential rather than reality. With media fuel added to he fire it is drivng emotion through the roof. I am not sure how you can compare anyone signing to their club with what is happening here - probably one - Matthew Kreuzer. Everyones signs for their own reasons and have different strategies to get the outcome they want. All I am trying to do is trying to throw some logic around some of the arguments. I apologise for the sarcasm and I do respect opposite opinions but tend to fire off when they are based on emotion. I am feeling very much less comfortable than I was three weeks ago and am less than 50/50 on him staying and yes I am admonishing myself because it is still being fueled by unnamed sources. I have watched RPFC's take on this and he has been strong on the logic. I sense even he is not quite as confident as a couple of weeks ago. I have listened to RR's position and I admire it from the sense that he is polar opposite to me in what he believes but his opinion has been 100% logical and arguable.