nutbean

I think harsh on Ray too - he is outside but goes when he has to

Had to sub out Shaw for Nick Lower - thats a fair and equal sub - NOT and I have got no trades left - DOH

I like everything you have written but the only comment I will make is that when his managements advised Tom of their strategic timeline choice they would have been negligent if they had also not told him what the repercussions of the choice would be . It is little surprise to me that this has erupted as it has. The minute you combine a complete end of contract decision timeline with the knowledge that GWS will be throwing huge dollars for him to move, the outcome we have now was inevitable. Compare that Kreuzer who received a GWS offer, received a Carlton offer - immediately rejected one - took the Carlton one and story over - except he is being hailed as a Saint. So whilst I support Tom and choose to believe everything that TS/Velocity and MFC have said and am hopeful he will stay, the timeline is TS/velocity's choosing and therefore so is the uproar that has ensued.

Thats fair and reasonable - unfortunately due to Velocity's strategic choice of timelines (as opposed to what other players have done) they have left themselves open to negative views. I am ascribing to the what will be will be position, but fully understand a lot of the negativity. By waiting until end of the contract and knowing that there are other parties interested you leave yourself open to the negative views.

Cant argue with any of that - well you can argue with it - however the Scully/Velocity team had a choice of when this will be over - by making their choice that it will be season end they have left themselves open to all the views you have stated.

Most slander/libel cases are taken to court for two reasons only - remembering that these charges are civil not criminal -the end result being damages awarded 1/ the plaintiff is suing to receive large material damages amount from the slander/libel 2/ the plaintiff is suing with the prime motivation not being to receive damages but to have the reputation restored - usually a "marketing" tactic - shock jocks suing so their listeners know that they didnt lie. Celebrities do this a lot as well - they dont need the money - but for future marketing of their name they need their reps restored In the broad scheme of things - this isnt an action that anyone would deem worthy of pursuing

On a negative reason as to why he should stay - I think that this comment is key. Any which way you dice it - if TS leaves it is because of big fat bucks and wont do his rep much good. I do know that there are a few that went to GWS did so for the money but there wasnt a perceived "A" grader amongst them. Campbell Brown, Riscatelli, Ablett even Brennan can make arguments about service and circumstances at their previous clubs that were also part of their reasons for taking the offer. Even the Judd move was prompted by his desire to come home - he did go to the highest bidder but he opted out of WCE before he started fielding offers. TS is a 1st round draft pick that has given 1.5 years services and is not deciding whether he wants to come home but actually leave home after accomplishing little and having zero success with a club that by most commentators views is on the rise and 3-5 years ahead of the club he is wooing him ! It can only be about money. Everything I have seen of the boy, his dedication and particularly his presser comments doesnt make me think that its all about the money. I find it hard to believe that he will back away from his press conference statements.

Did two years of law so I am qualified to give a half arsed opinion ( of which most of the time was spent playing pool ) - lesson on day one - the hardest cases to win are libel/slander charges. There is a major difference between saying - he has lied and I believe he has lied.

Cudo's - respect your right to voice your opinion but dont agree. What I will say - if TS does anything else but sign with us I will conclude that his decision is all about money ( and I will mention the merc... word) as I can see very little reason to move from us to GWS other than money. At least Ablett had accomplished premierships and brownlows and so it as an opportunity to restart with a new club - he has given 8 years of very good service to the Cats. So for GA you can argue it was not only about the money.

Sorry mods - help me here as I think the above is a cop out. Is this ban-able. None of us have irrefutable proof one way or the other ( I think we can all agree on that). It is my belief that a contract or agreement has been signed/reached before his presser and subsequent statements or I believe that TS/Velocity has received a GWS offer before his presser . I believe that TS staight out lied to us in his press conference. The above is a constructive and defendable opinion. ( just not one I ascribe to) Would a poster be banned for saying that ?

My only problem with this whole debate is the inability of some not to take their arguments to their logical end. If you believe Tom Scully received offers before his presser, signed heads of agreement, contracts, handshakes for committment. his signature is one of the four on the contracts with the AFL - whatever - there is no problem with that opinion. You can make arguments to support this as many have. But you cant hold this opinion and say Ts/Velocity comments have been spin - its is called lying - TS has lied and so have velocity. Mike Sheahan, Damian Barrett, Mark Stevens, The Ox by their beliefs in what has transpired are not implying that TS/Velocity are lying - it is an irrefutable irreversible conclusion to their belief. At least Mark Robinson is saying now - "I have no idea what to believe". If you believe he has already signed then man up and say - TS is a liar. I dont believe he has agreed or signed therefore I dont think he has lied. If you think he has signed and already gone then you have to believe he has lied - thats your opinion and thats fine - just say it !

Ding Ding - seconds out

This is exactly where I am at except I will change the word affecting me - to the word upsetting me. It is affecting me - I have posted 90% of my posts on this topic - now thats called affecting me.

Because to our knowledge, Sylvia's delay is not choosing between two contracts - which Scully obviously will be. Sylvia is only negotiating with one party ( to our knowledge) I dont ascribe to this but it is not illogical.

The crucial difference in opinion lies in the belief in this statement "the club is bigger than the individual ( and /members of the club must live by this statement) " - I dont believe this and havent for a fair while. I believe - "the clubs and the individuals within the club aims and aspirations need to both be the same and if they are they should be met". It may sound a bit new world - but there are now two sides to every contract negotiation and every timeline and the club doesnt come first - its give and take on both sides and so much is dependent on demand and supply - We have put Bails contract extension on hold because we can - Mortons is on hold because both Club and player probably want that - and Scully's decision is on hold because he can. This is the way of the world.

Agree 100% - but RobbieF is saying that he believes that all players should put the clubs interests more to the forefront and a choice can be made now that would satisfy some footballers wants and satisfy the club and that view as a passionate supporter is not unreasonable and furthermore, some footballers have taken this option - Kreuzer for one - Rejected The GWS offer, taken less money and committed to stay. (hope I havent put words in your mouth Robbie !!) I dont agree with Robbies stance but sure as hell understand it.

Has he put them off ? I thought they are talking but are apart on $'s ? I havent heard that they are on hold.

Dont disrespect this opinion. I dont agree with RobbieF's opinion and live in the camp that he has a right to decide his next contract at the end of the season. But the statement cited constantly that other players have put their contractual situations to bed and he hasnt is none the less valid and where there is a choice to postpone contract talks rather than commit (which he and has management have chosen to do) then the choice leaves itself open to two different views on that decision. Whilst I dont consider TS mercenary and dont consider this decision all about money - his management has talked about the new players payment scheme - so it is about money. It may not be about getting the most money or a certain amount of money and may only be about a fair amount of money. But since he has delayed his decision when there is another choice and player payments and TV rights has been mentioned then that leaves you open to claims of being mercenary. I dont believe he will go because I take his press conference at face value - loves coming to work, knows where we are going, wants to be a one club player and he answered questions on how you can turn your back on the big bucks. But I will go on the record and say that if he chooses to head north then he is mercenary and it is about only the money and flies in the face of what he said at his presser. As a passionate Melbourne supporter I will have lost all respect for him being mercenary but as a cool headed business person I will understand his decision to secure his future financially ( ie be financially better off). My problem is that I leave the cool headed business person at home when i head to the G to watch the Dees

MTM = Mountains ouTta Molehills

I respect your opinion. My heart 100% understands exactly what you are saying - passionate about the Dees My head understands where the kid stands professionally and career wise and the total professional career choice AFL is and why what has happened is happening. Total internal conflict ( dont mention venting my spleen or voiding my bowels)

disagree and agree with old. Whilst there can be a direct comparison between the two (Bock/Scully) - the only difference that needs to be highlighted is the amount of coverage/publicity the Scully issue has recieved - makes the Ablett saga last year look like a 3 line sentence buried in the middle of the paper. The level of %$%^&*&% that will happen if he signs with GWS will be enormous and is best served up after the end of the season.

In fact it is more like this 1/ At end of season - MFC selected - media fanfare - which will die pretty quickly except for following years he will have to be BOG every game in the media's eyes because of the extravagant amount of money he is being paid 2/ At end of season - GWS selected - twice as much media s**** storm - varying from " he better be Best on all grounds since he is being the complete carbon tax revenue to play" to "understandable that he couldnt resist the money" to some fairly unsavoury remarks regarding , integrity, loyalty etc. 3/ If he declares now - MFC selected - multiply point 1 x a factor of 2 with questions surrounding "Why the change to the timetable" 4/ If he declares now - GWS selected - expect point 2 x a factor of 10 - all the s*** storm as above and the added "hes a demon until the end of season and we will play him" or "here's the door - we aint playing you" and the ensuing frenzied debate on to play or not to play.

I have no problem with MFC tabling their offer now. I also choose to believe there was no offers/approaches from GWS prior to the current offer. I am not naive enough to believe that GWS have not earlier expressed interest either directly or through intermediaries to TS management but I choose to believe no offer was tabled or at least Velocity have said they will not field any offers from GWS at this point. I am sure Velocity always had knowledge that an offer would be coming (when asked for) and when tabled would be in vacinity of $XXXX over XXX years. Therefore there is no subtefuge or lies or deceit in saying that prior to the current time Velocity have received no offers, been no approaches or held discussions with GWS. I have no problem with this and I choose to believe that neither Velocity or TS has therefore lied. That TS management have accepted the tabling of the MFC offer - I have no problem with this - I am sure that there have been ongoing discussions even though the timetable for the decision has been set by Velocity and hasnt altered. That it is getting to the point end of the discussions - I have no problem with Velocity asking GWS to now table their offer as Velocity are seeing that MFC has basically put its best foot forward. There is still a raging debate over 3rd party payments that will and wont be acceptable - so there is still a way to go. Therefore I still have no issue with Velocity and TS waiting until the end of the season to make the decision. To throw the cat amongst the pigeons I also believe that the decision to hold off talks until post season 2011 made last August was in part decided by Velocity that they were aware that GWS would come sniffing - I have no problem with that either. I choose to believe that nothing has been signed and am hoping he will stay but will not ignore that there is some big cashola on offer for him to move.

This board is full of posts from both ends of the spectrum day in and day out analysing Bailey and his staff. Has he got the necessaries to take us to a premiership - sack him - keep him - judge him - more time - less time - chop him now. So when it comes to Scully one of the big issues in his mind ( and has been for generations of players who have said " I want to move to club X for success" - hello Nathan Buckley) is , are we on the right road to success and who the coach is has a rather larger bearing ( and will we get there so much quicker than GWS if it all) Do we not remember when RDB came back to the Dees to coach - Moore , Templeton and others came on board for what they perceived as beginnings of the road to success ( oops). One of the main themes we have all sprouted on here is that we believe we are 4 years advanced at least on GWS in terms of development and end success. There have been numerous posters who have suggested that Malthouse, Roos or Clarkson will take us places that Bailey can't. If TS is all about success does he not need to factor in who the coach is ? If Malthouse is appointed at seasons end do you think the experts would say - "gee, that will set the Dees back years" or will they say "this is a fast track to success"? TS will not be considering how it affects him - he would be considering who is coaching the team and how that translates into team success or failure - reasonable in my opinion.

No its not a dangerous path to take. He is not deciding who the coach should be - he may be deciding how it affects him. As a hypothetical - if he is weighing up the value of the non financials and it is a line ball decision if he wants to leave for the bigger buck or not - do you not think it might add a lot more weight to the decision to stay if he knows that a Malthouse is coming who is a premiership coach - or conversely, he has so much love and respect for Bails that he will leave if he is axed. He may be in love with notion of being coached by Sheeds ( OMG !!!) It is no secret that Bails is also out of contract and will be reviewed at seasons end - I would suggest that TS would factor it into his decision making.