nutbean

Simply yes. Have a look at West Coast - yes they have some really great kids coming on but the difference to last year is the likes of Cox, Glass, Embley, Nacoski ( yikes -cant be bothered looking up the spelling) and to a lesser extent Kerr ( some injuries) stepping back into good form and leading the way. Even Kennedy at 23 is now stepping into the more mature category. The great Hawthorn teams in 80's continually had great mature players that ushered in the kids - by the time the kids matured they had the next raft of great kids to learn from the now matured last lot of kids. We need our best players being our more mature players shouldering the responsibility so the younguns can come on. Unfortunately it is the exact opposite for us.

I watch Jordie McKenzie play and his disposal by foot is just average however he seems to be aware of his limitations and places himself in the middle of the link and feeds out handballs over a short to middle distance. He rarely places himself on the end of the chain and if he does he limits himself to a 15-20m short kick that is safe. He is reliable over this distance and tends to find the low risk options. When Barty places himself in the middle of the link - there is no problem but lets himself down when he is the end "outlet" either with a shot at goal like last Sunday or on more than a few occasions in the backline.

I therefore add Ablett to Judd coming home as the biggest media frenzy in my lifetime...hmmm ...not sure what difference that makes. Speaking of impecible sources - Eddie MacGuire congratulated Melbourne two years ago on radio on the coup of what he believed was the signing of Judd by Melbourne and 48 hours later Judd announced that Melbourne was out of the race for his services.

I purposefully didnt include Ablett as the Ablett saga paled into insignificance compared to this ( or am I too close to it because he is an MFC player ?)

The major difference is the intense ( x 100)media scrutiny. I cannot remember in my lifetime when there has been such spotlight on one almost out of contract player - maybe the Judd situation but that played out much quicker than the Scully situation. There are so many "unnamed sources" with differing stories and also contradictions from some named sources. I therefore have chosen to believe TS because at the end of the day he is a MFC player and its costs me nothing to take him at his word. Until someone else comes and shows me proof to the contrary where he has signed or where he was offered a contract last October I choose to disregard the scuttlebug because TS is an MFC player and it costs me nothing to take him at his word. Heres the rub - He will stay or he will go - whether he was approached , not approached, signed , not signed doesnt make a lick of difference. I choose to believe he hasnt signed or made up his mind because it costs me nothing to take him at his word and he is an MFC player.

I disagree so vehemently in paying 100% of the cap - in fact I disagree with it being bottom end limited to 92.5%. Players should be paid what they are worth or at least where the negotiated salary has settled. If it adds up to 50% or 75% or 100% of the cap then so be it. But if Collingwood pay their troops $8.21M and we have to do the same then we are seriously oerpaying some of our cattle.

I heard the screech of your tyres from here as you chucked that "ewey" !!!!

We dont know the details of Watts negotiations so enlighten me as to why it took 3 months from starting talks to get there ? I am playing devils advocate as we do not know if he was happy with the figures offered, unhappy , whether there was something else on the table ? Tell me the difference between Scully and Green ( our captains) negotiation where there was an offer on the table from Collingwood for more money than he was on at Melbourne and kept us in suspense until after the end of season. ( and yes - I am a hypocrite as this information came out in the media - the same media who is whipping us into a frenzy over Scully). Besides the unprecedented media because of the purported dollars on offer from GWS - what is the difference between the Green and Scully negotiation ?

As opposed to Scully who said " I would like to be a one club player and envisage that will be the case" ?

I agree 100% on Trengove and there will always be footballers who did sign in a timeframe that makes us all sleep well at night and are seen as "100% the club". Then there will be those - Scully, Davey, Green, Bruce, Watts, Pavlich, Travis Cloke ( and lots of others - please dont make me dredge through past newspapers) - who sign after the season has concluded with protracted negotiations and give us ulcers ( to varying degrees).

Always was ? You know this how ? If he was so happy why did the negotiations take him to post season ? ( I dont think you are wrong but I am applying the same level of scrutiny as applied to Scully) What we NOW know is that two weeks after the end of last season Watts signed and since he has signed a contract is happy enough to stay at the club. Prior to that, the negotiations started around July and concluded in September. There was some angst on this board regarding his contract delay - the only missing ingredient to make it into Scullygate was a "revealed suitor" I think you interpreting past history to suit your purposes and putting a twist on history that is yet to be written. What if Scully signs with the MFC a week after the end of the season and says " My management and I said from day one this would be concluded at the end of the season. I wanted to concentrate on footy until the end of season and I have now signed and happy to be at the club. I said from the beginning I loved being at the club and see myself as one club player." Then history will show Scully to be no different to Jack Watts (minus the hysteria x 10)

It is not only the misses that hurt - it is the knock on effect on confidence and the momentum killers that doubly hurts. When Howe took the mark on the behind post and popped it to Barty in a much better position we all cringed as the one person we didnt want kicking on goal is Bartram. Love his hardness but its not enough

fair call

Edit required - Watts did not renew his contract until the season had concluded. (news release 14th September 2010)

I just received my 100% Melbourne email which I presume will be followed up with a request for money. I will do my bit as I have done previously. What I did find startling is the chosen pictures of the players down the bottom of the page. Not one player in the leadership group has their picture on the email.

And some poster screamed for Fev and Akermanis - so we were the only bunnies that passed up on Darling ? So he has so far proven to be ok - There will be a hundred genius's on here who will say - I said we should we have picked up ......yet we only hear of the pick that has made it ( and he aint quite there yet" So I will say - before he went to Brisbane, to all those who were screaming for Fev - put your hands up and say "and then there is Fev"

meanwhile James McDonald from the rookie list - 200 games plus and captain - your point ? ( I actually understand your point - but nothing infuriates more than retrospective drafting - there will always be players we could have had and players we have that others could have had)

Actually after some heated debate in public with ADC regarding Tom Scully , I had one or two private messages with him and it actually took a lot of tension out of the debate. We dont agree at all on that subject but the private messages I think helped. I still think you are a looney ADC ( tongue in cheek emoticon)

I am basing it on TS answered questions about TS - the journo's are relying on information from others about TS - see Taylor Walker post above. When GWS come out and say we signed him or got commitment last whenever then I will have two parties with first hand involvement contradicting each other. Up until the time that happens I will rely on the only first hand information I have.

Agree 100% hence my line "He has also gone to a brilliantly structured team who deliver or in the case of Ball, are in the right spots waiting to be delivered to" We bemoan the fact that we cant get the ball out of our back half - I have constantly maintained that it isnt the player kicking out or the taking the second kick - it is our players next in line who dont work hard enough to be in the right places - second third and fourth leads to make space. I watch when the Jamar/Moloney combo is in sync - right palming to the right player in the right place - spmething of beauty. We havent done these things well enough. I see plenty of players at the bottom of the pack or in tight places and not have a well placed outsider to dish off - players not working hard enough to give an "in space" option. Dont get me wrong - Ball is a good footballer and would be at the bottom of every pack at the Dee's but he releases the ball to players at Collingwood who play the structures so well and are where they should be. Not sure that he would have the same impact at Melbourne (yet)

Robbo had a little sook at the end but has come back after a season and embraced the club and been positively spruiking for us - through our good or bad. Yze on the other hand hasnt said boo until his tweet - his tweet had the same smell about it as his last couple of seasons with us.

I like Ball as a player but I also think you have to look at where he has gone and it gives some insight as to why he is doing so well ( not detracting from the fact that he is a good footballer). Who do you lock down on at Collingwood first ? - Swan ? Who do you lock down on at Collingwood Second ? - Pendlebury ? Who do you lock down on at Collingwood third ? - Thomas ? He has also gone to a brilliantly structured team who deliver or in the case of Ball, are in the right spots waiting to be delivered to. Simon Buckley is producing good football for Collingwood. This is no slight on Ball but I am really unsure how well he would do in our team as opposed to his output at Collingwood. Now Judd on the other hand.....

The same journalists who all swore that Taylor Walker was a certainty at GWS next season ? How about this from Paul Connors ? "Connors expected the East Fremantle product ( R Palmer) to team up with Adelaide forward Taylor Walker, who Connors says has already signed with the expansion club" I believe ! I believe ! Edit: in the absense of facts I choose to take TS at his word because at the end of the day it really doesnt make a scrap of difference - he will stay or he will go. Double Edit - double oops !: " Craig is not frustrated nor distracted by the speculation which heightened last Saturday when former Crows ruckman Rhett Biglands declared Walker was signed and delivered to the Giants on a $1 million-a-year contract."

Sorry to correct you - it is actually nonsensical. If he does leave and it is for some amount as rumoured - it proves nothing - particularly as the rumours have ranged from $800 a year to $6M over 5 years = $1.2M - thats only a 33% spread ! What his season offering and his purported worth have to do with whether he has been truthful or not is beyond me. So can I counter that with this gem - the rumours of Gary Ablett signing up early with GCS were unfounded as he had brilliant year with Geelong finishing a close second in the B&F, VC in the all-australian and worth every penny of what GCS are paying him ? (ummm what ?)

A million posts quoting informatation and disinformation. I have little to no provable fact either way so in absense of irrefutable facts I will take a Melbourne player at his word. The end result will be that he stays and I will be happy or he goes and I will be unhappy.