Pates

Obviously I hope he chooses the club that's going to be able to provide the best trade potential (outside of Collingwood). I'm willing to back in Goodwin and co, but I really hope this isn't going to be a James McDonald-like decision that fractures the club.

Adelaide fans retort to that is that Dangermouse was a free agent the following year so they didn’t have leverage to demand more. The crows have proven themselves to be the most petulant, unprofessional club with dealing with this issue. I have a bad feeling this will drag for almost the entire trade week. I really do think our offer of picks 10 + 27 is fair however if we are able to trade to a lower second round pick I’d be happy to give that instead of 27. This is a guy that they lowballed from that start and then didn’t even poll in their top ten B&F. How they can claim two first rounders is mind boggling.

I have to say I think I’ve moved passed my sadness and am now resigned to him leaving. Club should do what it can to get the best deal we can for him (although can we PLEASE not trade him to the Pies). Maybe it’ll be mutually beneficial, he could find something that he could never get at Melbourne and fact is if he remains at Melbourne he will always be a talking point and potential distraction. The way this has been handled has ensured that. I really wanted him to be a part of our successful period but it doesn’t look like it’s going to happen.

I'm the same, we weren't desperate for him last year as we had others to step in. He's being given time to develop at VFL and from what I saw of him in 2017 I feel like he's got the right attributes it's just about getting it to click and get him into the gym to get some weight. That said 2018 definitely shapes as an important year for him, especially if a certain former no 1 draft pick is not with us.

I feel like Lever is the straw that broke the camels back, Adelaide seem like they’re losing quite a few players to interstate clubs and Lever is an easy target to get angry with because he’s a young up and comer and he is choosing us specifically. Scott Thompson’s defection to Adelaide stung me for quite a while, almost more than the likes of Scully and Farmer. We always knew he was going to be a gun and he was injury riddled at our club but we stuck fat and helped him through it. I still remember his management saying “he’s given good loyal service to the MFC” and I just thought, pull the other one! This will sting for the Crows, and all I can say to them is suffer in your jocks!

This talk of him going to the Pies is sickening. For one we have a terrible track record when trading with them, and recently discarded players seen to improve there (though I have nothing against Dunn or Howe). Plus there’s the history between Jack himself and the Pies, I’d just about vomit seeing him wear black and white.

I would imagine what he's saying is alcohol losens the tongue and lowers the intelligence. So what a person who claims to be in the know would say while drunk makes ripples at the moment.

I gotta say, I'm actually getting a little bit of pleasure out of how the Crows/Adelaide media are throwing the toys out of the crib on this. Seriously how much more pathetic can they get with it? I will acknowledge this though, they've had some good players leave them recently to "go home" and it appears they will be losing two more in Lever and Cameron. But they opened the door for this situation by trying to pay such unders to Lever in the first place, Lever may have burnt the bridge but they poured out the gasoline. I still feel like Pick 10 and 27 is fair, maybe we can try to upgrade the second round pick or add a sweatener to it.

I think this is the most disappointing thing for me. The conversation on whether Watts stays or goes seems to almost be moot now, the way the club has spoken publicly about him makes it almost untenable for Jack to stay, how can he when the coach and leader of the FD seem to be throwing so much weight around getting him out? And worse still is the fact that by staying the things we have I feel like his trade value has diminished. This is such a mess, and it's a mess the club didn't need.

An interesting aside to all of this is we have Weids waiting in the wings. Next year is the year that many (I’m sure the FD included) would have seen for him to make the leap from VFL to AFL player permanent. But that’s a lot of talls to fit in the forward line. Especially if as expected we get Lever as that could potentially free TMac up to move forward (where I think he plays better). Fact is I don’t think there’s room for everyone. I’m still a supporter of the “remain a demon” side but it’s interesting to consider.

I haven’t been afraid to point that out many times that crows fans have been keen to call him a sook and and mercenary. Seems they’re quite happy to accept one but not so happy about it going the other way. Funny that.

He did put up that post recently about the Wizards incredible prelim final performance.

I feel like there is going to be significant backlash from the supporters/members if he ends up going. I’m not saying that should necessarily alter the position of the footy department but they should be prepared for a s-storm of upset fans. This call to to push him into exploring his options has been so badly handled. I sort of wonder whether the initial conversation was quite amicable but since looking into other clubs it hasn’t sat right with Jack and this is why he’s renewing his stance that he wants to be a Melbourne player. I feel like if he wants this done and dusted he should hash things out with Viney and Jones. It’s not about going behind the coaches back but if you’d like two players back you up it’d be those two. I think about that match winner against the Pies, how much it meant to him and how much it meant to the fans. It just doesn’t seem right to trade him.

Agreed, after all the great work we’ve done to build a club that doesn’t have controversy and stays off the front page for the wrong reasons we’ve gone and done this. Clubs can’t whine about “a player being contracted” when we’re trying to push someone with 2 years on a contract out the door that clearly wants to be here.

My thoughts on this have been that if he were happy with the idea of having an opportunity at another club then let’s make it happen. But hearing him come out and say he wants to be a Demon it makes it simple for me. Don’t trade him. I know this may be letting emotions get in the way but sport is an emotional caper. He has been through some of the worst times the club has ever faced and he has born the brunt of a lot of criticism directed at the club, very unfairly. Of course he would feel upset about the idea of us moving him on just as we start to push up the ladder. Putting all that aside though, one of our biggest deficiencies, which got worse during his injury run and failure to recapture his form, is disposal into the forward 50. He is the best at the club for that. He has also proved to be a cool head at clutch moments. We trade him for a 2nd rounder then I feel we’re losing at the trade table and it wouldn’t be for the first time with an established player. I mean have a look at our history of trading out players, Gysberts for Pederson is the only one I can think of that has worked for us and even that was pretty iffy for a while. I say Watts and Goodwin sit down, Watts says “I’m committed, I want to be here next year”. Goodwin tells him exactly what is expected of him over pre-season and next year and we move on. I think this has been a poor move by the club, even more poorly executed.

Oliver was a risk, he was a draft bolter that came from nowhere and surprised quite a few. I feel like our attitude in this regard has changed a fair bit in the last few years.

It took a lot longer than that, you could argue this is the culmination of close to a decade of hard work. Our culture has been rocked by some truly disgusting pathetic decisions in the past (recent and not so recent), we are digging ourselves out of a bigger pit than anybody. As for Goodwin, no he's not a great coach yet. Not many are in their first year at the helm. But he's got some good ideas and a fresh approach, now he just needs to fix our mental fragility.

It's a very good question, Richmond's success has come on the back of a sensational year from Dusty where he went from an A/A+ player to out and out star. Of course lots of other parts to it with the emergence of some very good contributors and bringing in the likes of Caddy and Prestia. We will need at least one of Clarry, Petracca, and Brayshaw to become stars. Viney I feel like has reached just about his ceiling in terms of ability, his leadership will be his biggest asset in the future. Hogan also needs to realise his potential, he has all the attributes to become a star forward, it's now down to his dedication (and us then holding on to him).

I tend to agree with you, I don't feel like there's a true powerhouse side emerging for a couple of years (hopefully us?). I think they will be thereabouts of the 8 again but they had a lot of luck at the start of the year and a friendly injury list. You need a lot of things to win a premiership, one thing the have never had since 1964 is luck. Taking nothing away from Richmond, every single premiership team has needed luck.

I've barely watched the finals this year, partly because I'm in UK but mostly because of the way we bombed at the end it left me so gutted I didn't want anything to do with it. I'm sick of us not being the ones at the end or not being one of the teams in contention. It frustrates me seeing other teams get to live their dream and in the case of the Hawks and the Cats do it multiple times. But some of the negative thoughts on this post are so draining. Great way of looking at things. Honestly your setting yourself up for years of disappointment and no success so you don't open yourself up to failure, it's well played. I get it your a long time fan, probably compared to you I'm a baby. I've only witnessed the 2000 loss and the horrific years that followed. But I do believe we will win it again. I believe it because 2 years ago Bulldogs fans were in this same position, and last year Richmond was in this same position. The records are tumbling and I feel like our time can come too, if the players are brace enough to take the chance. If you honestly don't think we can win it ever then move along. We need to date to dream, it's what the tigers fans have done for so so long.

I get what you're saying but a premiership window exists. Look at the Hawks, or are you saying the Lions or the Blues can win the premiership next year? We are in a premiership window and you're an idiot if you don't recognise the incredible job Roos did to pull us back from the brink. It's over the Goodwin now who has shown some good coaching traits and ideas, but seems to struggle to get us up at the right times so far. One year in the though, Hardwicks been at the tigers for a fair while now.

To me what this shows that you don't have to have a most skilled team, just the most committed. Particularly this season, pressure and commitment when it counted has been the name of the game today. Richmond brought the hunger, Adelaide couldn't handle it. It's what we lacked at the key moments this year. Learn from it Melbourne and it could be us holding that trophy (I honestly believe that). Difficult NS medal to call this year, I'd have gone for Houli myself but it was a very even team performance, when someone dropped off another player stepped up. Everyone did their part. Adelaide didn't have a single winner on the park today, even though they got smashed with hit outs very few went to decent advantage and even when it did the Adelaide players were swamped. Can I just also say for a year that had so many great finishes this was the worst finals series for a while. Apart from Port losing to WC in extra time (sickening) every game was a blow out.

Saints next longest by 2 years.

Well if wasn't game over before it certainly is now. We need to use the Tigers as our inspiration. They missed out on finals last year and had their resolve questioned. To be honest they got VERY lucky earlier in the year but that's what you need to win the premiership.

Wouldn't think Adelaide can win but I'd love for Richmond fans to sh!t themselves.