binman

Yes, but only in the sense that we lost losing one of best four mids in gus before a ball was bounced, lost another best four mid (and arguably the best mid in the AFL - and def top 5) in tracc and had viney, who rounds out our best 4 mids, clearly struggling with his shoulder for big chunks of the season. So, two of our best four mids not available and the other two carrying injuries. In terms of our midfield strength, I had expected sparrow to go up a level, but he appears to have plataued. I think kolt will go into the middle sooner rather than later as he looks a natural inside mid. And I haven't given up on laurie. We need to replace gus, but otherwise, IMO, we have other drafting and trading priorities, namely elite kicks who can run and carry (eg players we have been linked with like cummings and houston) and a legitimate forward ruck to give maxy a chop out.

I agree Gator. I think the evidence this season is he has been been fully committed. Tried his guts out every week. But he was never going to get anwhere near his optimal condition given his off season. Get his surgery done and he can attack the preseason. I'm working on the assumption that if the club doesn't trade him the club believes that is what will happen. But we have a big chunk of our salary cap tied up in clarry, which apart from getting value from that investment, it makes it more difficult to bring in a gun on a big contract (it doesn't seem to have impacted our ability to resign a bunch of key players). So, he needs to get back to his best next season.

For god's sake who would you have selected ahead of clarry to play on ball? Laurie? He had his shot at cementing his spot as a mid. And couldn't take it Clarry was dropped this week and Laurie is still in the magoos. Who else would you have picked from casey to play as a mid? Sestan? Woey? AMW? People are banging on like clarry didn't earn his spot in the side, that he wasn't in our brst side, or that we were carrying him or some such. To be blunt, it is an argument that objectively simply does not hold up to any scrutiny. He is our 7th highest rated player for the seasom. That is fact not supposition. As I noted that puts him ahead of 36 of his teamates, including of course Laurie, amw and woey.

Yep. Which was really my point. Objectively, clarry has had a pretty good season. Of course, a long way from his best, but even so, based the player ratings, better than 37 of his teamates.

Behind five midfielders? Do you mean behind five players who have played ANY midfield minutes? I mean, c'mon, max is a ruck not a mid and kozzie and nibbla are not mids either. And whilst Rivers played as a mid at times, 70% of his season has been as a defender, so very difficult to compare to clarry who played as a mid 99% of the time. Even if you do include Rivers as a mid, he is only just ahead of clarry on the ratings. So basically clarry has had as good a season as rivers. And I don't think I've read a single post all season knocking Rivers. In fact Rivers' rating highlights my point about the demonland poll (which was really just an aside) - despite having almost the same player ratings this season, the demonland poll has Rivers our 4th best player, and Clarry 9th.

How did you arrive at our sixth best rated mid on Wheelo's ratings? @WheeloRatings's app is terrific. One reason why is the way you can sort the data As i have noted previously, the Champion data player rating is the best measure of players as it measures the impact of every involvement a player has in a game and as is the most obbjective measure. I'm not counting Max as a mid, nor Rivers, who didn't play enough games as a mid to be fairly compared - but even if I did include him clarry still shaded him imo. And didn't include tracc because he only paid 13 games. If I did, obviously he's our best mid this season. I'll acknowledge unquestionably our best mid is a stretch, but i maintain he was our best mid over the whole season. IMO he just shaded jack viney who dropped away alarmingly in the second half of the season (and thanks to clarry escaped much scrutiny). This is the player ratings for the last 20 games they've played, which is why Gus is listed. Clarry and Jack have both played 21 games this season, and it's worth noting clarry played a defensive mid role for much of the season (relevant for his disposal numbers). Jack just shaded clarry for player ratings and clearances, but clarry bested jack for disposals, centre clearances and contested possessions - all important kpis for mids. Leaving aside the discussion on midfield, the table makes for interesting reading. Leaving gus and tracc aside, clarry is our sixth highest rated player in his last 20 games. Meaning he is ahead of fan favorites like may, Lever, mcvee, langers and Windsor. Hence my comment that I'd bet dollars to donuts he'll be top 10 in the bluey. If you are a regular demonland reader you'd think a top 10 in the bluey would be impossible given the assessment by most posters of his form this season.

A demonland poll is probably not the fairest assessment of clarry diem this year given some of the nonsense written about him

Bingo. If you done rate the dees, hard to rate port. Ditto for giants.

Yep. And a glue player. Every club needs them and losing nibbla compounds the impact of losing Gus. Hard to replace.

Yep, you're right. It creates a variable that wasn't there, so may increase the chances of Houston selecting another club. Depends a bit on how far down the road they might have gone. That said, I'm wary of the noise coming from tracc's side - it feels a bit scripted, a bit manager driven. Tracc's not going anywhere - at the moment. But he's definitely sending a message (and I'm ambivalent about that too I must say). On your main point, I agree 1000% It's hard to believe Nibbla will play only two more games for the dees. I'm shattered. I can't think of many dees players I've respected more. He will leave a huge hole - on field and off field. Of course he has to play. The players will be hell bent to get a win from our last two games.

All fair points. Personally I put no stock in either reports he's coming our way or suddenly cooled on us. I'm happy to wait and find out who comes rather than getting swept up in the trading palaver. My main point is for any gun player who has decided to leave their club, the decision about which club they want to gi to is done months ago. Doesn't mean it happens, because the clubs have to come to terms. If Houston decided a while ago Dee was his preference, the tracc noise is fugazi, particularly given its noise, whereas as 6 or 7 players resigning in the last month, including two young guns and Petty, is fact - and evidence of a club players want to be at.

I wonder what his error of judgment specifically was?

If you don't understand why, there's not much point me explaining it - particularly given it had literally been explained dozens of times by multiple posters. If you don't get it, you don't get it.

Some balance wouldn't go astray either. Anyone who has faced the sort of challenges clarry has faced, or knows someone who has, knows its a very hard road to get back on track. Clarry deserves a lot of credit for doing the hard yards, on and off field. On field, despite what even some dees fans claim, he has been one of our better players this season - and our best, most consistent mid. I'll bet dollars to donuts he is top 10 in the bluey. He deserves credit for that alone. He deserves further credit for backing up week after week and putting up with slings and arrows, some fired by dees 'supporters', being relentlesly physically and verbally targeted by opponents and seemingly not able to win a single free kick from the umpires. And most impressive of all is the mental fortitude to back up week after week and try his guts out knowing it's impossible to play to a level anywhere near his brilliant best. I mean this a player with a record that perhaps a small handful of dees players could come close to matching in the 166 year history of the club. And despite not being able to play his best footy he has not once dropped his head. It would be great if the media could at least note that. As for dees 'supporters' who don't get that, well....

Agree we should play nibbla. Absurd to suggest we wouldn't honour a plsyer who had given so much to the club But no player considering us would give a fig if we did or didn't. I mean, after all they are leaving their own club and any decision to leave has already been made. It's just dealin' that needs to be done. But in any case, I'm deeply suspicious of 'media reports'. Media creating 'fairy tales for profit' would be closer to the mark.

The cats would also have to triple their player welfare spending - imagine stengle and clarry in the same team! On stengle, it's crazy how him completely passing out cold in night club in season has got so little attention. I mean bloke's got form and he get so hammered he collapses in public and there's crickets. I mean, that's probably a good thing, but it's hard not feel the media pick and choose who they will denigrate.

I don't even want to watch it! Gutted. The last time i was close to being this upset about a player leaving is when with the wiz left for freo.

Yep, top idea. Langers is the only comparable athlete to nibbla we have on our list.

But unfortunately we'll still have to watch players running their guts out with ball in hand, and look forward and realise noone is gut running to provide an outlet option.

I think we can assume we did so because it was the best thing for clarry.

And not only that, clearly struggled rehabbing his hammy in terms of, for the first time in his career, not having the structure and routine playing each week provides. By all accounts he is working very hard on his wellbeing and has a good formal support network in place. I have little doubt part of the thinking behind not getting his hand sorted was ensuring he had the structure of playing each week in place. And the reality is a 70% clarry is better than any other option we had. (Though he looked closer to 50% in the second half against port so good time to swap him out).

Who have we traded out that is an elite athlete? Jordon isn't, Beford is. And we didn't trade out either, both left of their own accord. Look at our current list. How many elite athletes do think we have with the sort of attributes Nibbla has (eg elite endurance, high cruising speed - striding speed as they call it - and ability to back up week after week)? I reckon the list stops at Langers, Windsor, Mcvee, maybe Chin, maybe Spargo and at a stretch Howes.