binman

Big pump up.

We gave the Cats the old UNO reality check reverse card.

Go you good things.

Continue to fail against contenders in the home and away season? Continue? We have lost to grand total of one game to a contender this season. The swans. Most rate port as a contender. I don't but we beat them on their home deck in one of the performances of the season. You are giving the giants a pass even though they have lost to TWO contenders but not extending the same logic to us? You are making my point that many dees fans apply a different set of rules to us than other teams in terms of assessing our chances of winning the flag.

Sure. Regularly being the key word. The giants have now been beaten by two contenders - the blues and the swans. Is that regularly? They haven't played another contender yet, unless you count the pies in OR. Which most wouldn't. So, really they have beaten noone. Yet they were flag favorites and everyone was gushing over them. Is anyone serious discounting them after being smashed today? But I agree the next two games are important. But not because we have to prove we are contenders. Because both are against teams who we are competing against for a top 4 slot. Classic 8 points game.

@WheeloRatings thanks for the heads up. Much appreciated. I know you couldn't get the post clearance possessions last year. Any chance of being able to get hold of them this year? Its a critical stat that i cant find anywhere. For any posters who have not checked out wheelos site, as molly would say, do yourself a favour. Brilliant site. And really easy and intuitive to use to compare a whole range of data. One of the functions I love is comparing players. It's much better for that than footy wire, a site I really like too, because unlike footy wire you can choose mutiple players and customise your stats fields for specific things of interest. The team list function is great too because you can look at big range of data points about players on a teams overall lists. Like the player ratings for the last 20 matches I used to compare our list with the giants (which by the meant i knew that in wehr the giants were playing their 25th rated player over that period). I use the site on the podcast to check data live when things come up. So easy to find things quickly once you are familiar with it - which doesn't take long. Props and thanks to @WheeloRatings. The site and the data he puts in the stats file thread directly informs how i see and understand the game and how we performance.

Equally people should not be writing teams off based on a loss, or in Carlton's case two in a row (not suggesting you are suggesting that dub). So any posters who are not not writing the blues off, or the giants for getting touched up by the swans, or port for getting smashed by the crows, please consider doing the same for the dees tonight if we lose to the team that us currently unbeaten. Like some did when we got beaten by the swans and lions. Home and away games, particularly in the first half of the season, mean very little in the scheme of things in terms of being a guide to a team's premiership chances. It's all about finishing top 4, then resetting.

Read the exec summary of the royal commission report kev. I'm out

I meant we ALL need education, not just perpetrators. Which is why I linked the rcfv and safe steps. And that it's important knowledge is the foundation of discussion there is the very real risk of dangerous myths, of which there are many, getting perpetrated. A key piece of knowledge is what drives it. And the answer is one that many get wrong. Of course we need to stop perpetrators of violence but they are symptoms nor cause.

By the by, moderation is a bit of a misnomer in terms of dl. Moderation for sensitive topics such as this usually involves posts being checked and then approved (or not) - and somtimes edited. Labor intensive requiring someone always on shift, so to speak. The moderaters on dl respond to reports or obvious issues and deltet3 as required. But because this is a volunteer run site there can often be a lag before sketchy posts can be be actioned.

Can I flag again kev my concerns about the challenges and difficulty of moderating a thread such as this. One person's robust debate is another's trauma. And this thread would be better I think in the general discussion forum, nor the footy one. Fir reasons I've noted. I won't be posting in the thread, but If the thread continues, can I respectively ask people to re read the post though a safety lens (oe could this make someone feel unsafe) before hitting submit. It's great kev that you are passionate about making a difference. Don't forget the education piece.

Pies to win.

I think what Andy has noted above is really important, with the second para of critical importance and raises an issue that i was just thinking of highlighting - the safety of victim survivors, women and children who read DL. On the topic of family violence, i wholeheartedly agree there needs to be discussion in society, particularly amongst men. But i don't believe a football focused thread is the appropriate space for such discussions (and even in the general forum i would have my concerns because of the risks of misinformation and traumatizing victim survivors if not expertly moderated - which is an incredibly difficult thing to do if the topic is family violence). I 1000% support the decision to not have a discussion about family violence on a football thread. I think discussion is important. But i believe that the most important discussions are those by men with their family, particularly their sons, and friends, particularly their male friends. Critical is understanding what family violence is, how many different types of family violence there are (eg financial control, psychological, electronic surveillance, control, emotional abuse, use of technology etc) and what drives it. A great place to start is the -Victoria's Royal Commission into Family Violence. For more general information Victoria's peak body for family and gender-based violence Safe Steps is great. For information about men's use of violence, Victoria's peak for ending male violence, No to Violence is a terrific resource. And if you are man who is concerned about your use of violence, the Men's Referral Service is the national counselling, information and referral service for men who use violence and abuse who want to change their behaviour. It is a confidential, anonymous service available 24/7 that you can call on 1300 766 491.

I agree with the first point, but disagree with the latter. Though line bsll. And I can see the argument for me being wrong.Which goes to my point about it being subjective how people rate individual players. And to my central point that fans tend to over rate oppo lists and that we have an excellent list. Whichever way someone lands on the relative strength of the players outside the best 12, which was the initial discussion, it's hard to argue the giants bottom 12 is clearly better than ours. We could probably all agree that max is the best ruck in the afl. He's certainly the highest rated. Similarly few would argue tracc is not in say the top 3 mids But once you are talking about the 12-24 players subjective assessment of players becomes much more variable. Which is why i chose the giants as a comparison as the consensus seems to be they have the best list. Better than the blues (who leave it to deaver suggested had a better list than us), swans, pies and any other contender. If they'll giants are the benchmark, we meet it. I think we have the best list, but as noted agree it's line ball with the giants. Ipso facto, we have a better list than all other contenders. I'd add that no other contender has a better group of best 25 players (as defined by selection in the ones) 24 years or under, which should be factored into any analysis of the strength of a team's list. What ever way you slice it, objectively we have an excellent list.

In season, runnnig hard to a elite level for seven months. I like journo Andrew Stafford's analogy of the demands on players in season as running a half marathon every game for seven months. That's aprox 20km, which is more than they run in a game (the most would be aprox 16km and the average 10-11?). So perhaps a better analogy would be a 10,000 metre race every game for seven months. Imagine running a 10k race once a week for 7 months with the aim of achieving a significant PB in the last week. Add getting tackled, bumped etc every week and dealing with niggles and injuries. Then add variable breaks between your weekly 10k and different conditions (eg humid, cold, wet, different surfaces etc). Add interstate flights and having to stay in random hotels (ie not in your home and bed) and constantly needing to adjust your routines. Hard gig for an individual. Multiply that by 44 and you get a sense of the complexities of AFL clubs' high performance programs. And for all the incredible planning the high performance programs involve how difficult it would be to get it right. It's fascinating the different approaches clubs use. The cats regularly managed players in the 2022, 2023 and again this year. Burgess never did, nor Selwyn in 2022. They flagged they would do more of it in 2023, but never really did. And we haven't done so this year, with the possible exception of how they are managing bbb - which I suspect is more about managing his chronic knee issue than management of fatigue. Given how critical the high performance programs' of clubs are, it's high time the media included it their analysis. How many people could name more than say 2 or 3 high performance managers?

And that wasn't even the stupidest thing. Rozee slightly hyper extended his leg, in much the same way as he did to hurt it the previous week (a weird action I've not seen before in terms of a hammy injury - is that a common way to hurt a hammy @Webber?) Was clearly limping. Went to the bench for 9 minutes or some such. AND CAME BACK ON, before getting subbed off a short time after. Hinkley said he erred selecting him, but was adamant there was no risk of further damage by putting him back out on the field. He may well be right, but if you think it was a unnecessary risk picking him, why double down and risk putting him back on?

#classic Demonland. Defence works 999,999 times. It's doesn't work on the millionth occasion and it's all doom and gloom .

No problems @Blistering. A son of Blistering has to be super quick, so he's got one key attribute nailed down. The other thing I'd add is I reckon a key metric for the HHF role is score involvements because they are so often links in scoring chains.

Agree. Ditto dees.

JVR is number 25 with 6.74. Hore then Howes, who is on 6.6. Jacob Weher is their 25th rated player on 6.5, riccarrdi and Adam Kennedy.

Compare the pair:

And their next 12:

It's subjective isn't it. Everybody seems to love the giants. Me too. Consensus seems to be they have a good list. This is their top 12 rated players in the last 20 matches: