binman

9 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

Probably time to acknowledge Sydney in the top tier. 7-1 and 147%, have beaten the sides sitting 3rd, 4th and 5th, plus 9th and 10th.

Fair call.

I'm def in the doubts about the swans camp, but you make a good case. They still have Mills to come back in too.

That said, and perhaps it's confirmation bias, but i have my doubts their method will stand up come finals.

By that I mean, like the pies for much of 2023 (but importantly not in the last 5-6 hames) they are a  transition team that relies on clean hands to get the ball to the outside to their distributors like gulden. 

That method can get exposed in the heat of finals.

That said they are strong enough in the contest and we'll coached so they can probably adjust to a more forward half contested game like the pies did last year.

But I'm also not convinced by their defence away from the scg. Watching them beat the giants looked like a carbon copy of our game against them.

They flood back and completely clog up their opponents forward 50. Old school but very effective on the ridiculously small SCG.

Lyon employs a similar method at the docklands.

As was the case in our game, the giants forwards had no space to lead into and every marking contest had mutiple players attacking it.

Because the scg is so small transition is hard meaning it's hard for opponents to beat the swans' defensive flood and get the ball into a one in one forward line.

That method doesn't work as well at proper football ground.

1 hour ago, Hawny for Gawny said:

Don't forget the 9 intercept possessions, 4th most on the ground!

Which points to yet another intersring tactical move from the coach even most dees fans is a tactical plonker.

Clarry was playing a similar defensive role Gus often played. A kick behind play defensive side.

They also used clarry a lot to set up transition, something they have been doing a bit off, but it was really noticeable sat night..

It suits him because whilst he is not a bullet kick like say salo, his footy iq is off the charts, he sees the field brilliantly and he makes good decisions.

He also doesn't get rushed and can take and break tackles.

It means they often have clarry at the defensive end if the chain and tracc up the ground in dangerous offensive positions - think his kick to Fritter to set up the wonder goal.

Powerful combo and a great use of clarry's footy iq - which I think is maybe the best I've ever seen  though increasingly I'm blown away by how well koz reads the game and how quickly he thinks.

On that last point, watch his goal he sharks from a handball. Genius.

Nine out of ten players go to the cats player and tackle or put frontal pressure on. 

Not koz. He pauses for a split second, knowing a handball might come and then moves to intercept before the cats player even makes contact with the ball. Just incredible.

23 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

If anyone’s in contention surely they get pulled at 3QT.

But seriously, is this not something the AFL and VFL can work on? Is it unavoidable to have Casey play on a Sunday when Melbourne plays the following Thursday?

And what is even more bizarre is tge previous Casey game was Wednesday arvo ten days days ago.

1 hour ago, Engorged Onion said:

Anyone know if stats are available to the public, that if one player, or two etc becomes injured... how much each remaining player increases their exertion levels to cover that loss? 10% 15% 20%? anyone got any ideas?

No.

But I watched the first 10 mins of the third quarter and I think they set a world record for repeating the word fatigue!

34 minutes ago, Webber said:

 The other thing they completely ignore is that we’d lost 75% of our well-functioning forward line by the finals anyway. Muppets. 

Which is almost exactly what Goodwin said today when interviewed on the abc footy show when asked for the millionth time about our forward line and going out in straight sets.

Good interview actually, but he couldn't hide his annoyance.

Goody  made the point that you work all year to have a shot, we were were in 'great shape' but luck plays a huge part and we lost our forward line 2 weeks out of finals. 

We just don't have a sexy game and people either don't understand it, think football is only about offence - elite defence be damned - or are clueless. 

1 hour ago, Wodjathefirst said:

What I found interesting in the after-match commentary on 774 was the lack of praise for our team
Comments that I recall included

-We still haven’t got a functioning forward line - that is why we had so many individual goal kickers on the night

- We were bailed out of the finals 2 years running- so that will be a monkey on our back come final again : and

Although our defence was good on the night, coaches of other sides will work out and beat our systems come finals.

Strangely, I like how we are being overlooked, I hope it continues all year. 

I listened to the abc post match too and had the same thought. What were they on about?

The comment about other teams working our our defensive sytem come finals was bizarre. I mean they haven't in three previous seasons why would they this year?

Is it kez washington? I've never heard of her before and she sounded reasonable enough. But she was totally agin us.

Asked a leading question about whether our supposed model of grinding teams and keeping them to a low score, but not be able to score highly ourselves, is a strategy that can win us a flag.

What on earth is she talking about?

One, we won a flag in 2021 - destroying teams in the process.

And two, yes we went out in straight sets the next two seasons, but it's not as if we were a low scoring in team in either year.

Or this year for that matter. Our average winning margin this season is 29 points for pete's sake.

I'm increasingly of the view that 99% of media just don't get it.

If we kicked accurately in the pies and blues finals we win. It  really is that simple.

Missing goals is not a failure of sytem. It is poor skill execution. 

Goody almost said as much in his presser. He must be so sick of questions about our forward line.

All that said, I did agree with the monkey on the back come finals. We do. Let's finish top 4 and get the job done.

Just now, Fritta and Turner said:

So Windsor takes Cameron when Cameron pushes up the ground to leave TMc in the back line??

Not sure why Windsor was chasing Dempsey from the back pocket

No, I don't think Windsor was on Cameron as such. 

When Cameron pushes up he basically plays as a winger. Windsor might have stood him at centre bounces but after that they go their own ways.

I'm not sure, but I doubt anyone played man on man with Cameron once he left their forward 50.

We would have just relied on our all team defence to negate him, and any other plsyer getting the ball in space.

Windsor would have been chasing Dempsey in the back pocket because like langers he gets deep into defence to help out our d.

He did a number of key defensive acts deep in their forward line.

24 minutes ago, Rab D Nesbitt said:

Hi binny. I know but that's just who he is. He's always been that way. That's how he's wired. He's rarely gracious about anything. I listened to Goody's presser straight after and in stark contrast he spent as much time talking about how good the Cats are as he did about us but that's who Goody is. Watching them back to back though certainly does highlight their differences and I know who I'd rather have representing my club. 

I was initially responding to your comment that his presser was 'not so bad'.

He's rude and a bad loser all the time so that makes not showing respect to your opponents ok?

Poor sportsmanship is poor sportsmanship. 

5 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

We’ve always been dumb and we will continue to be dumb is what that says to me.

BBB hasn’t had a kick since, Billings and Petty lost all confidence, not to mention the Oliver fiasco and Salem tore a hammy 3 seconds in to the Brisbane game.

There’s a good rest after Thursday and we’ve had plenty of rest the last few weeks, so it’s not exactly the same.  

Is Fullarton at 100% worse than 80% JVR (he might be, but I’d consider the switch because I doubt it changes the outcome of the game and will protect JVR and possibly Max if Fullarton can hold up in the ruck as well as Petty with fresh legs at CHF).

High performance background DS?

57 minutes ago, Rab D Nesbitt said:

Just watched Chris Scott's presser on the back of all the comments and didn't think it was so bad. He's always been begrudging of praise to the opposition and I thought he made a good job of engaging with the journos instead of treating them like the numpties most of them are. 

Forget giving your opponent some credit, he didn't even mention the opponents once.

That's just really poor form.

Compare his presser to goody's - he was humble in victory and was effusive in his praise for the cats and how good a team.he is.

There's no coincidence that in the two post match interviews I've heard from dees players - may and langers - both were similarly complimentary about the cats.

12 minutes ago, Fritta and Turner said:

Can someone tell me what role or position Windsor was playing in the first quarter?  Seemed to be on Cameron and Dempsey at some stages.

Wing - and im pretty sure for the whole quarter.

Not sure about Dempsey, but id say Cameron was on Windsor at times, no vice versa in the sense that Cameron set up at a few center square restarts on the wing.

That said Windsor was def part of the combined efforts to shut Cameron down.  

30 minutes ago, Fork 'em said:

Been taking notes from Serena Williams.

Pay that. Excellent comparison 

Like the cats, Serena has never actually been beaten by an opponent. 

Both only ever lose it because, 'whilst we are not making excuses we [insert lame excuse here - options include covid, gastro, just had a day off, imply robbed by the umpire, played poorly but still almost won because we are so good and our opponents are not in our league, focus is the finals and schedule].'

27 minutes ago, leave it to deever said:

You forgot Billings.

Only kidding.

You're kidding?

Billings is a better field kick than say Windsor ans rivers.

Def elite. His field kicking yesterday was sublime.

23 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Fine young man. Well spoken.
  Marginal player.  Needs to lift.   

That's a very strange take 

A marginal player? 

I presume by that you mean not quite best 22 and on the edge of being out of the team?

Apart from your personal assessment of his game, what evidence would you point to support that opinion?

If he was a marginal player wouldn't he be in and out of the side, often an emergency and/or frequently the starting sub or subbed off ?

Off the top of my head I can't recall when he was last used as a sub, or taken off and becoming the sub for that matter.

When was the last time he was not in our starting 22 and/or dropped?

Half way through last season?

I'd guess chin has been a best 22 lock for at least the last 22 games we've played.

Laurie could be described as 'marginal'.

Can't see how Chandler could be considered marginal.

1 hour ago, loges said:

Every side that makes finals is a contender, some will get closer than others but they are all contending.

Disagree.

Every team that makes top 4 is a contender.

Which is not to say that a team outside top can't win in.

But the fact remains it is exceedingly rare for teams outside the top 4 to win a flag.

And i would contend the game is so demanding now its harder than its ever because of the impact of the extra game. 

1 hour ago, forever demons said:

Wow what a burst,take deep breaths and have a lay down.And well said

Yep, fair call.

Edited post to calm it down some.

Fascinating game tactically.

One thing i didn't realise about the cats until this week was how direct they are.

The least number of possessions per goal and the most long kicks, usually opting to kick long to a contest rather than short, and back themselves in to mark, or half the contest and win the ground ball.

Goody had another tactical win in that regard. Petty almost played as a quasi mid, following the ball and frequently getting up the ground to impact aerial contests.

Disco was a more traditional forward, but also got up the ground to hir aeriel contest.

Roo spent a lot of time on the ball, taking 22% of ruck contests (against a season average of 14%) and did a great job of hitting areil contests hard.

As they usually do they tried to take maxy away from the ball, but he still had an impact aerialy.

We knew coming in the cats would look to kick long to a contest and dominate aerially.

So goody reduced the amount of aeriel contests by implementing an uncontested marking plan and made sure we had good representation at any pack mark contest.

One measure or the success of the latter tactic was, on a night that was definitely very slippery, that we smashed them in the air, taking a whopping 8 more contested marks (16-8).

Well played goody.

8 hours ago, Binmans PA said:

The approach tonight that was noticeable was our keepings off game at half back. We only played it in the first half, but it was really good tempo footy, because it meant 1) they didn't have it and 2) we weren't dumping it long down the line to see it slingshot straight back at us.

I was at the game, but hadn't clocked how often we used uncontested marks until getting home and watching the replay. What was interesting was hearing that we apparently have the most uncontested marks in the competition this season. 

Can anyone confirm this? I hadn't really noticed how heavily we were relying on this until watching the replay.

We were also far more prepared to switch and go fast tonight than we have for the last few weeks.

Not sure about the uncontested mark stat  I'll check.

But we used a very similar tactic against the dogs - ie using uncontested marks to control the tempo, frustrate the dog's ability to get into a rhythm and transition the ball from their back half.

In that game we had 141 marks (the second most under goody), in this game we had 117

And i suspect a high % were in the first half, as was the case against the Dogs.

I think that is part of a strategy to not let those teams settle into how they want the game to look.

There is an interesting parallel between the dogs and cats.

Both teams are helmed by coaches that like to tactically mess with their opponents in terms of having specific strategies that disrupt opponents game plans and method. 

But in both games it was us who disrupted their method and refused to let them settle into their preferred method.

Scott reckon his players were off at the start.

Whilst he is right, the reason they were off is we never allowed them to settle into a rhythm because goody schooled scott (supposedly a tactical genius) tactically.

I hope the media point that out, but I won't hold my breath.

9 minutes ago, piddz said:

Normally like the way Chris Scott analyses a game in a presser but he straight up just said they were off tonight and none of their players would be happy with their individual performances etc… 

No acknowledgment of our pressure or movement which stifled them. 

This is in stark contrast to how Goodie conducts himself in a loss even if the whole team is crook or walking wounded he gives his kudos straight away to the opposition and says the better team won on the night. 

Just an observation that irked me. Suck eggs Scott, suck eggs Geelong. 

I just texted this to a mate who is a big cats fan:

'Scott, who I had warmed to, lost me with his sour, sore loser, press conference - gave us no credit.

I suspect there is no love lost between goody and Scott.'

11 hours ago, darkhorse72 said:

I agree with him for out team 5-2 ism good enough, we should have been 6-1 (Sydney were good) I take it saying with our talent, we should be at the top and we needed to show it tonight and we did.  Go Dees. 

Sorry, but that's a complete load of bollocks.

5-2 not good enough when 2 of those games were against Port and crows at Adelaide oval, the latter off a five day break?

And one was against the swans at the scg, which is worth 2 goals to them given how well they play there (particularly defensively) and in slippery conditions? 

I mean on the same ground yesterday, in much the same conditions, the much vaunted orange tsunami turned into a wavelet and they got smashed.

So 5-2 with 3 difficult interstate games and a horrendous schedule is not good enough?

On brererton, I'd love to ask his view on the giants given they have already lost to two contenders - not good enough?

Or his views on the blues who were 5-2 before the round - not good enough?

And now 5-3 - gone?

Port were also 5-2 before the round- not good enough?

Now 5 -3 - gone?

What about the cats derm?

They have only beaten ONE team in the 8 - the blues (who just got beaten by the pies for the same reason the cats beat them - they are suspect defensively this season).

The cat's other 6 wins are against teams outside the 8, including the winless roos and hapless hawks. 

Cats not good enough derm? 

Bliss.

Just started watching the replay. 

First derm gem:

5-2 is not good enough.

Go redleggers.

21 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

May kicked the ball like the real Steve May for the first time in 3 years.

Petty with a proper chf game, he can absolutely do it.

Great games out of Langdon and Windsor 

Plenty to like and a proper tough win 

100%

Tbe best he has kicked the ball in any game I have seen him play.

A weapon.

5 minutes ago, binman said:

A mate, a big dees fan, watched the game at home just texted me and said good thing I watched live because derm would have broken my brain if I had watch it on the box.

They kicked themselves our of the game? 

We were 12 points up on xscore at half time. 

And I suspect halfway through the third the xscore would have been minimum plus 25 with Windsor's miss, kozzies miss and nibblas shocker.

Those 3 goals get kicked 80% of the time minimum (which is how they arrive at xscore).

Thank God we won that game because WE would have been rightly bemoaning gifting them the game.

We dominated the first half of the third and should have got out to a match winning lead.

I'm on my home.

Ill watch the replay and have a laugh at breteton.

It's embarrassing for the sport that bloke is paid to analyse it.

13 minutes ago, Chook said:

For those following the Dermie "cats wasted their chances" halftime narrative, he's chosen to stick with that in the postgame too. Absolutely no idea.

A mate, a big dees fan, watched the game at home just texted me and said good thing I watched live because derm would have broken my brain if I had watch it on the box.

They kicked themselves our of the game? 

We were 12 points up on xscore at half time. 

And I suspect halfway through the third the xscore would have been minimum plus 25 with Windsor's miss, kozzies miss and nibblas shocker.

Those 3 goals get kicked 80% of the time minimum (which is how they arrive at xscore).

Thank God we won that game because WE would have been rightly bemoaning gifting them the game.

We dominated the first half of the third and should have got out to a match winning lead.

28 minutes ago, greenwaves said:

Great performance by the coaches.  They went to school on Geelong and found a way to restrict their ball movement.

Great call.

I have heard 3 media people call Scott the best tactician in the game this week.

And many people, including some dees fans, think goody wouldnt know a tactical innovation if it knocked on his door and introduced itself.

And what is even more surreal tonight wont change those people's mind.

Strange looking game structurally.