binman

I for one agree.

Please do. I look forward to rewarding your list. Please include the name of the team each forward plays for. by the by i could name about 500 AFL players who can kick better than Oliver.

Agree. I'd do a direct swap

I won't defend it per se junior. But i listended to that hodge interview (actually really insightful). In regard to tbe uncontested possessions his criticsism was firmly on the players, not goody, for simply not gut running to get across and cover. Basically said they did not work hard enough.

Totally agree with all of the above. I could not have been more impressed by West Coast last night, they looked gone for all money. particularly with McGovern not down back and the saints looking to have a big advantage wit their big forwards. But i'd also add, that in all honesty the real issue for the dees is that for the majority of the last 50 years few of our teams have had enough talent across the board. Sure we have had our share of talented players, as we do now, but we simply don't bat deep enough. For me that is the real answer to the question about our so called cultural issues and our lack of leadership. All the Eagles players you correctly point out stood up in the last part of that game are guns. To that list of players who stood up when needed i'd add Ryan, Kelly, Barass and Oscar Allen (pick 21 in 2017 - makes me weep). That is 10 players who stood up - every one of them super talented, and at least 5 of them A grade stars. All of that with McGovern on the bench and another 5 or so top shelf players to come back in to the side. Compare that to us. Really we have three A graders and maybe another 7 above average players talent wise. Sadly of that 10, almost all are terrible kicks (who in our team kicks that goal by Kelly in the last quarter?) And then we drop off a cliff talent wise. That 'aint going to get it done. I heard Buckenara (a brilliant footballer, one of my all time favorites) talk about how successful the Hawks were in his era. He didn't mention culture or leadership (though those things were part of it no doubt) - he talked about the insanely talented list.

Totally. i don't think it can be underestimated how a big the impact has been this year (and last season for that matter) not having tmac at his best. A case could be made that he is our most important player given our struggles to put a winning score on the board. His importance has been amplified by the failure of Weideman to come on. Weed has been ok this season, but just ok. yes he has kicked some goals and competes pretty well in the air and creates contests. But if you look at his stats he is nest to useless once the ball hits the deck - he gets very few possessions, sweet FA tackles and has been putting almost no pressure on in these last few critical weeks. To be honest the freo game was the final straw for me. After only having two possessions against the swans my expectation of him as our key forward was to go hell for leather. He trotted around like a player who didn't want to get hurt. Or worse like aplayer who had no care or passion for his club. I don't ever recall saying this about a player but if it were up to me i'd trade him at seasons end. His trade value won't get any greater and maybe the pies want a Weideman at their club.

14 contested marks to 4. In the wet. They are an incredibly good marking team.

Him and ryan please.

Saints?

It was stated as fact by a poster around the time of the blues game. The poster's name escapes me and i don't recall them posting for some time (though was prolific poster at that point). We had a number of back and forth posts about it as in the immortal of Sy Richardson's character, Lite, from Repo Man 'I called [censored] on that'. As if the club in this day and age would ask an already big, 27 year old power forward to put on 10kgs to play deep full forward (which as i pointed out to said poster they didn't even play him in thta position agnst the blues, or subsequently as it has turned out).

Sorry - can't edit: the SEN links are wrong Jennings; https://player.whooshkaa.com/episode?id=730480 Hodge: https://player.whooshkaa.com/episode?id=730440

Interesting comments in this article, particularly from Jennings and not quite as deep a dive into the tactics as i would have liked but at least it is something in the media. https://www.espn.com.au/afl/story/_/id/29840981/afl-how-three-2019-losses-spooked-simon-goodwin-demons Here is the audio clip of Jennings from SEN quoted in the article: https://player.whooshkaa.com/player/playlist/show/1921?visual=true&sharing=true&episode=730480 And here is Luke Hodge on SEN from Tuesday talking about the dees after the freo game, and he touches on the game plan and culture https://player.whooshkaa.com/player/playlist/show/1921?visual=true&sharing=true&episode=730440 I haven't listed to the clips in full, which i'll to so today, but he snippets i have listed to are a fascinating insight.

Its complicated if it is chronic injury. Using the Tiger Woods analogy, he played for more than decade with a chronic back injury. And for much of that time was still a pretty competitive golfer. Eventually he had to stop completely to get it right. Perhaps they are playing him, thinking that even with the injury he can contribute, which to be fair he has tried to do. VDB said in his interview on the Demonland Podcast as result of his foot injury, that he took two years to rehab and get back from, that he does not training between games. Perhaps Tmac is much the same. Without VFL games perhaps there is no real way to build his mobility. Tmac has post season surgery after the 2018 season, coming up to 2 years ago. And as far as i know, none since and no other on field injury. Which to me suggests something chronic. Personally i reckon Goody made a mistake with where they played Tmac. When in, they should play him, not Weed out of the square. Keep him deep as possible and get him to take all inside 50 throw ins. Sure players would still run off him but his lack of mobility and agility would not nearly be as exposed if he was playing deep as it is up at CHF . And playing deep, as true fill forward his extra weight is helpful in terms of one on one contests and it would forces opposition coaches to sacrifice a big defender to man him, whereas with Weed, well they can put a weed on him

Depends on how you define ability. I define is as talent Injury and condition impacts on your capacity to optimize your ability. Take Tiger Woods. Arguably the greatest golfer ever. Certainly close tot he most talented golfer ever. Went fourteen years without a major in large part because of a chronic back injury. Didn't play competitive golf or more than 3 years. He didn't lose his talent in that time, thought of course he is closing in on 45 so getting older and won the masters. At his age Tmac should be at the peak of his career as a power forward. It has is very unlikely he has lost his ability. Confidence yes, injury can do that (just look a Lever coming back after his knee injury), but talent and ability no. He is clearly hampered by injury, chronic or otherwise. I should be amazed, but am not, that so few seem to be acknowledging this seemingly evident fact (on here and worse football commentators and so called analysts who express confusion as to what has happened to him).

That may have been true 20 years ago. But it isn't any more. Plenty of players set to the AFL with sub standard skills particularly kicking skills. You only have to look who we have drafted in the last decade. Kicking takes years of practice. And time. Like a golf swing it has to be drilled through repetition. Hundreds of thousands of kicks. Twenty plus years ago kids played kick to kick in the strrets, in parks and at school. Have a look around next year and see how many kids you see kicking the footy for fun or even just have a footy in their hands. Also now the the kids getting drafted have more often than not played more than one sport, frequently at an elite level. So have to spilt their training tim and practice times. Which might help in some ways (eg translatable skills) but does nothing in terms of helping develop kicking skills. And I don't know but I'd be guessing that in elite junior footy rhey spend less time on kicking skills now (as they have to focus on a bunch of other things like tactics) than they did 30 years ago. Just on kicks Liam Ryan for the Eagles is the sweetest kick i have seen for years. A thing if beauty. Economical action, great rhythm and deadly accurate. Ill bet London to a brick he grew up with a footy in his hand.

His ability is not the problem. His problem is obviously related to his physical condition

This quote hit home like an arrow, as it mirrors my thoughts after both games - which of these teams is in finals contentions?. which of these teams are playing with a desperation born of a refusal to countenance losing?, which of these teams are playing wit the required intensity? 'A ruthless analysis will condemn Melbourne most for their losses to Sydney and Fremantle by acknowledging that those two teams looked to be galloping past the Demons. The ruthless observation would be that they looked to be teams with desire, a plan and a style. As clubs they played with, yes, a ruthlessness that the season might have ended for them a while ago as far as finals were concerned but small victories could be taken in any sporting contest. They understood that with less at stake than Melbourne in the grand scheme of this season and finals they would still play like there was more at stake.'

I think there is a typo. Surely we are playing in Cairns?

Was Richardson at the freo game? I don't recall seeing him.

Alanis says hi

Exactly. Half way through the second it was 38% to 70 odd. The other issue that stat (and the crazy number of uncontested possessions and marks for that matter) throws up is they went at 71% in the wet and that is in large part because of how many free players they had to kick exiting their back half. Which speaks to our lack of effort and gut running to spread and cover the outlet kick and the next link in the chain. Unforgivable. It also speaks to the obvious risk of: making so many changes (not just in this game, but over the last 3 games - a ridiculous 17 in total total) bringing in so many players into the side who had barely played senior game this year, and some none at all making structural changes at this point in the season in a must win game - preuss in, albeit as basically a forward (in a game they knew was going to be wet and windy), Melksham tagging and VDB forward Given our model is based on all team zone defence and process everyone knowing and playing their role (and trust in each other they are doing so) is critical. You could see that players were confused sometimes as who was to supposed to be on who and who was to be where. These sort of wholesale changes are just crazy and an anathema to cohesion and a well drilled side. And they flag to to the team, fan and the opposition that we are all over the shop and lost. Which is absurd given we are close to playing finals. Such strange messaging. I'll bet London to a brick that it was key focus of Longmuire's message to his team - boys this team is rabble. It was telling that Longmuire said after the game when interviewed on on the couch that coming into the game the message was e wanted them to to be more aggressive, switch wide and take on corridor, back themselves to take risky kicks on - because we would 'would give them' that opportunity. Also telling he demanded of his player 'total buy in' and all team effort and was thrilled that there was not a 'single passenger'. It goes without saying we could not say the same of either of these things. Remind me who had finals on the line? Something is not right.

100%. I have zero doubt he is injured or worse has chronic issues. Most likely with his feet (note: this is based on my observation, not any intel). He is too heavy and has lost all mobility. This has to be down to a limit on how much running he is able to do. IIRC his last surgery was post the 2018 season. He has always been close to our best time trialled. He wasnt this year and my recollection is tbe club didnt say where players finished, orher than tbe first two. But I think I recall a poster saying he was back in rbe pack. It is not a form thing in my mind. It is an injury thing. Which is worse.

Just heard Longmuire interviewed on on the couch. Couldn't believe it. He said, paraphrasing, they wanted to be more aggressive, switch wide and to tbe corridor. Back themselves to take risky kicks on. All straightforward stuff. What I couldn't believe is that he said he thought the dees 'would give them' that opportunity. That to me sounds like a first year coach going to school on Goodwin tactically.

Langdon and river's effort.

This is so spot on. Something is wrong. The freo boys wanted that win more than us. That was so clear from the start. So many half hearted attempts at tackles. So many half hearted chases. As you say so little intensity. For mine only langdon, trac may, hibbo, viney, fritter, Oliver, max, rivers and maybe lever played with the required intensity. And of that lot only langdon fritter and maybe viney played well. I could pick out any number of players but one stood out for me. Weideman. His effort, other than in marking contests, was simply appalling and not acceptable. Trotted around, didn't tackle, didn't play wirh any intensity. 17 changes in 3 games. Something is wrong.