binman

Spot on. All of it - particularly the need for a public statement from the club (personally id prefer it come from the CEO or President, but Goody works too).

Yep, very stressful job - particularly if you factor in the rocket science, brain surgery, constantly having to reaffirm his Catholicism and his inexplicable need to regularly [censored] in the woods.

A lesson in how disinformation spreads in 2023: person x reads article by journo who's main goal is to get clicks not accurately report information person x posts their take on this grey info (on social media, forums, etc ) person y reads person x's take and further confuses the original information. Outcome - dimma says there is no more stressful job in the world, including MICA paramedics, the Pope and Thai cave rescuers.

Yep. Maybe he had health issues, or has another gig lined up next season (eg port or the suns) and needs a break, or perhaps he feels he needs to support his great mate who is struggling. Or perhaps he is simply burnt out and doesn't feel he can do the job justice. Maybe it's a combo of all these things. Or not. Until there's more information I'd prefer to wait before jumping to conclusions. But whatever the reason, tigers fans will be poleaxed. They're probably still coming to terms with loss to the bombers and the fact that finals are most likely now out of reach. And now they have to deal with tgis palaver and bedding in a new coach. Wowsers.

Indeed. And almost all jobs on that that long list would be paId way, way less than what Dimma would be on. My MICA paramedic mate says hi.

Really? If he is experiencing personal issues and needs to get away from football for his well being then ok. But if not, surely he owes them the commitment he made at the start of this season - to see the season out, to honour is contract. Remember he must have been the driver of going after Torranto and Hopper and his pitch prusumably was we are still in the premiership window. Otherwise why tie up so much salary cap space for two mid twenties players on long term contracts? How does a new coach rebuild?

This should be the Demonland motto. Perhaps a Latin translation to give it an air of authority.

His worst game for some time. I found myself saying c'mon kozzie a number of times.

First 10 minutes will tell the tale.

Steve may said much the same thing in his Demonland interview

Tmac can do the donkey work leadimng up the gound, leaving the Ruinator to prowl around conserving energy inside 50, ready to launch at every high ball that comes in.

Good hypothesis I reckon. Salo can basically slot into the role he has played his best footy in - true half back, playing off his opponent, hard at it when needed, good with the ground ball and neat, forward 30 - 40 metre kicks that hit targets. Mcvee plays as more a lock down defender and bowser can sweep up out the back and push forward and get creative. So we have three tough half back flankers who win their own ball and have elite kicking skills. And Salem will relish that we are taking more risk with our kicks this season. For a team that is already one of the best at scoring on transition, a set up with Salem, McVee and Bowey is something to look forward to.

Yep, good points. But they could have swapped the round 18 Lions v Dees game with the Cats v Bombers game, which is on the Saturday night (which by the by is at kardina park, not the G which means a small crowd given the stand won't be completed). The bombers and cats both play the previuous Saurday, so no issue with the break between games or fairness. And the lions rond 19 game is on Saturday and ours Sunday so issues with breaks for either team into their next games A Saurday night game would still mean a free to air game in prime time- albeit not the friday night which i assume is the most valubale slot from a commercial perspective. And given that lions and the dees will almost certainly be the match of the round, i'm guessing Channel seven would want that game on a Friday night.

As i understand defamation, it is the publishing of alleged defamatory statements that is actionable. The media have an obligation to have some level of confidence that what has been said is truthful if it chooses to publish potentially defamatory comments - or i assume at the least include some sort of disclaimer. I'm sure the ABC would have done their due diligence in their initial exclusive report, but if they didn't i would have thought they could be sued for defamation. If they are sued for defamation, truth would be their defense and that would be tested out in court. And surely Hawthorn had a responsibility to properly manage how the information came out - my memory is that sat on the report until forced to release it when the ABC were going to run with the story. So perhaps they can't be sued for defamation, but surely there is some legal remedy for the appalling way they have handled this situation. Hawthorn are the villains here. And the AFL too because it happened on their watch and in the context of their pathetic response to the national shame of Goodes being booed.

That makes sense. Hopefully then Chaneel 7 and the AFL will pour the sort of promotional resources into the game they did a few years back when it was 'the heart of the country', or some such, game.

Yep. And this is one reason why being 7-2 is so important - the hardest part of our fixture in terms of travel and breaks between games is behind us.

Travel is never ideal. But you're right, it helps big time that the Saints travel in round 16 - and to perth at that (for a twighlight game. meaning they will have to getthe red eye out). Does anyone know if we charter a flight to and from the Alice?

Not sure i follow your logic here. Why couldnt we play the round 16 Alice Spings game on a Saturday arvo? Our round 15 game is on a Thursday (against the cats) and the Giants are comng off the bye. So no issue there in terms of fairness. A Saturday arvo game would mean a seven day break into the round 17 Saints game, mitigating the impact of having to travel (clubs basically lose a day when they travel in terms of prepartion and recovery - partic to a venue liek the Alice). And really the big problem is back to back six day breaks with travel. Playing the round 16 game on the Saturday would mean the six day break into the Friday night round 18 Lions game would not be an issue, partic because no travel is required.

So we travel to and from Alice Springs for our round 16 game. Then we have a six day break into what will be a critcal game against the Saints in round 17. And then another six day break into yet another critical match against the Lions in round 18. Thanks AFL.

1. Agree. 2. Strongly disagree. The 'accusers' don't owe anyone anything. They voluntarliy agreed to participate in a HFC initiated process. 3. Agree. But if they want to so, then they need to seek damges from the HFC and/or the media for its reporting.

Sometimes offence is appropriately taken when it is unintentionally given because people are not culturally competent (you don’t know what you don’t know). And sometimes victims of a lack of cultural competence are asked not to take offence (when it is completely justifiable to do so), or worse are criticised when they do - or even accused of a having a 'victim mentality'.

I said it at the time - and i'll say it again now. It was of course wholly predictable that the media would focus on the alleged actions of Fagan and Clarkson because they are perfect click bait - but the focus on them from the get go was, and remains, a dangerous furphy. (to be crystal clear I’m not suggesting Clarkson and/or Fagan did not do the things they have been accused of in the report, or minimising those allegations in any way. But we don’t know the specifics – they are contested and presumably will be addressed in any investigation. However, WE DO KNOW from the report there was poor cultural practices at the HFC and examples of very questionable cultural competency). But not only is the hyper focus on Clarkson and Fagan unfair on them, it completely distracts from the critical questions that should be asked – was Hawthorn culturally unsafe, what quality and governance system were in place to make sure what has been alleged could not happen, what policies and procedures were in place, was there systemic racism at play etc. I have been involved in accreditation, audit and review processes for a long time. One of the fundamentals of quality reviewing and auditing is that unless an individual is actively disregarding policy (and the obligation is on the org to make sure employees are aware of all relevant policies and how to comply with them), the fault falls on the organisation – in short if there is some system break down or poor practice it is the org not the individual who is at fault. For the sake of argument, let’s say that broadly speaking some of the more salacious specifics are contested. But it is accepted that senior coaching staff met with young Aboriginal players IN THEIR HOMES to discuss sensitive family related issues (like living arrangements, relationships) WITHOUT them having their own support networks present or involving family (even at that point in time, involving family was accepted good cultural practice – at least it was in the community sector where I work. One only needs to listen to Kozzie talk about his contract negotiations to understand why). The first question should not be what specifically those coaches said or did in those meetings, but rather were they operating in accordance with the club policies and within HFC cultural practice frameworks – and did they even exist (and if so what ongoing training did staff receive to help them understand them and build cultural competencies and how are/were they reviewed to ensure staff are complying with them)? What were the supervision practices in place to provide a forum to explore exactly such practice issues and support fidelity and adherence with the relevant policies? Another question is did Hawthorn, as part of accepted good governance, regularly review their cultural policies and practices? A related question is why did these issues take so long to come to light (at the minimum suggesting players did not feel comfortable raising issues)? What were their complaints policies, were players aware of the complaint policies, were they encouraged and supported to make complaints, was the environment supportive of them doing so, what was the exit interview policy, what was the compliant management system, were these polices and systems adhered to etc etc. Very few, if any of these questions have been asked by the media. Almost all the focus and criticism has been on Fagan and Clarkson. It should be on HAWTHORN, who have copped very little blow back. And unhelpfully the focus has now drilled down on specifics that are always going to be grey, contestable and dependant on perception. For example Clarkson framed his discussion about partners as being an example of caring for his players. And that sounds reasonable. But from a cultural perspective, such a conversation is likely to be traumatic for an Aboriginal player (for example because family members were part of the stolen generation), particularly a young player trying to find his feet and a regular senior spot. And that is not even factoring in enormous power imbalance at play. Maybe Clarkson didn’t understand the cultural sensitivities? But if not, that’s on HAWTHORN, not Clarkson – unless of course Hawthorn can point to a strong cultural competence system and a rigorous process of ensuring compliance with that system. I may be wrong, but I’ll bet my bottom dollar they didn’t have one in place. And if they did, it failed because they clearly didn’t act at the time. The media has been playing the man, not the ball – and the Hawthorn Football Club (the ball in this hamfsited analogy) should have pushed back on this narrative and accepted their responsibility but instead allowed two former employees, one of whom their President is in open conflict with, to basically be the fall guys. I'm not trying to make Fagan and Clarkson the victims here (which by the by raises yet another reason why the focus on them is so damaging - the commentary has devolved into how unfair it has been on Fagan and Clarkson and debating their innocence or guilt). The actual victims are the Aboriginal players and their families. That is where the focus should be But they are victims not of Clarkson and Fagan’s, butr their employers – the Hawthorn Football Club. It is the Hawthorn Football Club who is responsible for ensuring a safe working environment for all it staff - players and coaches alike. And it is the Hawthorn board and senior management who should be bearing the brunt of all of this, not two of their ex employees.

I was thinkin exactly the same thing @Demonland

What he King didn't point out though is that, yes may often boots it long to a contest 80 odd metres - but nowhere as often as the ladt 2 seasons. For one thing, he's no longer taking almost all the kick outs. But may and others who take the kick out are going short to the both pockets more often to set up a transition play (ie not a short 20 metre kick and then a 50 metre kick to a contest)

Mentally and physically