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Right, and how would you compare our team now to then?

Was awesome against Freo, and also very good against WC and GC. Think he had a good one in round 1 too.

Yeah and Salem, Weed, Pedo, Garland, Brayshaw, Trengove, ANB, JKH etc all played 10 games or less. All list cloggers?

Well you'd say the definition of a list clogger is someone who's taking a spot on the list but not using it right? Jones played nearly half the games. Pretty simple to understand that means he's not clogging up a spot but actually using it.

Played 10 games = definition of NOT a list clogger.

No sure you understand what the term means then...

"List cloggers" don't play 10 games.

Gone under the radar this year as one of our most improved players. We talk about run and spread and improving on skills, he's done both those things this year.

And we're back to using "alternative ladders'" again.. Yay.

So you were just arguing for the sake of it? That's the actual point then right? Doesn't sound like you at all, everyone is a troll here other than you and your untouchable analysis of the game that you bless our mere mortals with. All hail.

You're right "ProDee" he's the perfect player and has absolutely nothing to work on in his game. Who needs second efforts or to apply pressure when your job is purely to finish off other people's hard work (as long as you mark it the first time and don't have to win the ball back or try a second time). I pointed out the silliness and hypocrisy of you decrying others for posting stats with minimal differences and then you do it AGAIN. Amazing. But you don't stop there, you take your "first 13 games" farce even further by starting to qualify your stats with "the same, before yesterday's game" and the absolute gem "How many contested marks did you think he was going take in the pouring rain ? Talk about disingenuity". Of course, there's also the fact that you've pointed out comparing 13 games to a whole season isn't fair, but then that didn't stop you from doing it with the stats that you'd like to use in your favour. Hilarious. Almost as hilarious as an "intellectual heavyweight" (note: the quotation marks in that cnotext imply sarcasm, just for your reference) like you totally overlooking the ironic nature of my stats post (have you not read my countless posts about DE%?) due to blind rage of your golden boy actually being held to account. Oh, and just for you, here's a silly pic of your good self....

Wait, so you talk about silly stats and then start comparing "first 13 games"? It's amazing that you will crucify Watts for his lack of contested play and second efforts, yet golden boy is immune to such criticisms. But hey, if you're happy with just "talent" rather than a competitor then that makes your Watts bias even more ridiculous. I know it's not like you to try and change the context of a discussion to suit your own agenda, but no one is saying Hogan isn't an amazing talent, some are simply wanting him to improve in his second efforts and work rate. It may be hard for you to understand, but there are actually things Hogan can improve upon. Oh, and comparing other "great key forwards"? At the same age, Lance Franklin averaged about twice as many tackles and twice as many goals. Now, before you madly mash your keyboard, remember YOU were the one wanting to bring that up, and literally NO ONE is saying Hogan isn't supremely talented. We're just wanting some improvement in certain areas, a bit like you with Watts....

Also... Tackles: 2015 - 1.4 2016 - 1.2 Contested Marks: 2015 - 2.4 2016 - 2.2 Effective Disposals 2015 - 68.6% 2016 - 65.7% And let's not forget you're comparing half a season against a whole season and he's playing more game time this year than last year. But hey, let's not say anything bad about the golden boy who is seemingly allowed to give up contests, not chase and not tackle because he's averaging 0.4 more goals per game...

This is a weekly occurrence, not just yesterday... Love his strengths, but hate his weaknesses and they go against everything Roos preaches.

Ummm arguing semantics on an internet footy forum?

Hang on... That's a bit of a shallow analysis I think AdamFarr. We won the game against the Tiges, the Saints always beat us (plus, Etihad), and the Bombers game... Well that was a massive failure by the senior players, agreed. But look at the opposition when we played a young side. Lions are rubbish, GWS were missing a bunch of key players, and the Pies were rubbish when we played them too. Don't you think it's a coincidence we just happened to pick a young side when coming up against a weaker opposition? Also, have a think about who the best players were in those games where we had the biggest differential (obviously opinion based): v Roos - Gawn, Vince, Viney v Hawks - Vince, Tyson, Jones v Pies - Bugg, Viney, Gawn I don't think it's right to be so critical of the senior players. You need to remember that it's a whole team game and the senior players are not only trying to do their roles, but also pick up the slack of the young inconsistent players while teaching them at the same time. Just have a look at the backline, they have struggled in a big way without Lumumba and Salem. Now I'm not saying our senior stocks are great, we still have work there, but let's not get sucked in to praising all the kids for their potential while bashing the senior players who are trying to not only do their jobs but also often some of the jobs of the inconsistent and inexperienced young players.

I don't think he was saying the whole club is like 2010, just the fact that we're having to play these kids in defence when it would be better if we had some quality mature players to shoulder the load a bit.

Haha been asked that a bit lately.... Nah, just blocked a few pests which increased my zen

I genuinely do. We may argue about it cos we don't see things the same, and I don't think it's necessary on a forum to start every post with "IMO" so I figured you would get that my posts are merely my opinion. You make some very good points, and a lot I agree with, big hopes for Hunt and Wagner especially, but I do worry about that "gulf" as I feel they need experience around them on game day and senior bodies to carry the load so we don't run them into the ground. For me, it's just about the balance and security. It's great if the kids are earning games and getting opportunity, but the lack of senior depth is a major concern for me this year. It may be bolstered next year with a fit Lumumba, Melksham, maybe some form improvements from others, but none of those factors carry much of a guarantee. I feel we need to improve our mature backline depth this offseason or I worry we won't be able to pace out the development of the kids properly.

Right, so that's a lot of posts you've made for someone who doesn't have an opinion then....

Just seeing you obviously didn't read it the first time and seeing you clearly struggle with context. Overall - We have improved. Backline - Has gone backwards. Do you disagree?

Where have I said we have gone backwards? Don't change the context of the comments Billy. Overall we have improved, but as I have said, the backline and it's lack of mature players, for whatever reason, is a worry as Roos has said MANY times that development should be a slow steady progress with no pressure on the younger players to carry the team. At the moment, we have a 26 year old and a 23 year old leading a backline full of kids. We've seen in the recent past what relying on the kids does to their development.