stuie
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Everything posted by stuie
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So basically... blah blah blah... They're pretty much as good as each other but Jones is a better captain. Got it. You gave your opinion and I gave mine. Don't go having a sook because someone comments on your opinion when you post it on a discussion forum. Sure stats matter, but they're only part of the story and you were completely ignoring context, leadership and performance in their career peaks rather than one decent year. Give me Jones who does it week in week out over Cotchin who even by your admission has only had one good year. -
Not completely his fault given he's been our one decent midfielder for the last 6 years.
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That's all he ever does mate. Has 0 understanding of the game, or the context of those stats and awards. He's the prototype armchair expert.
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As usual you take a simplistic look at things that will suit your agenda. The fact is there's not a big enough difference in their key stats to clearly say one is way better. And no, numbers don't "usually go up", especially if you're talking about a 28 year old. But aside from that, you're forgetting about context, as usual. As you said, Cotchin was in a "superior" team, meaning he had far more support, help with tags, better structures and coaching, more wins, all things that would help you perform better. Jones has almost identical stats over a longer period of time in a team where he has been the sole target of opposition midfields, has had 0 support, terrible coaching and far less wins. On top of that, Cotchin (as many others have mentioned) is not much of a leader and there's no way in hell he would have been able to carry a club every week the way Jones has/does. Also, you seem to be changing your argument to Cotchin is more "talented". No one will disagree with that, but that's not what you were saying. You were saying you would take him ahead of Jones, and there is no way in hell Cotchin would have done anywhere near as much in the red and blue as he has for the Tigers. You yourself say Cotchin has been "disappointing over the last 3 years" which at 25 is the peak of his career, and at a time the Tigers were meant to be challenging. Clearly he has struggled with leadership impacting his game, whereas Jones has elevated his game since becoming captain. Cotchin may be more naturally talented, but Jones has shown the type of leadership, heart, character and determination that you would want for a team in our situation. But you know, if you're happy with a captain who by your own admission has been disappointing since becoming one then it shows how little understanding you actually have of the game.
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Wow. You started out at least trying to use reason, now it's just getting silly.
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Mate, no one is arguing about Viney wanting Wines. Emma's article is not a phantom draft but a talent list, can't you tell the difference? As for Shifter, did you miss this bit: "Who wants him: The Giants will take the South Australian with one of their first three choices and he wouldn't be out of place as the top choice. They say: "Has super ability to break the lines with his pace and agility, is also able to then finish with neat foot skills.""
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Also Ignition, here's a few pre-2012 draft lists that aren't based on club gossip and just talent. Emma Quayle 2012 Talent List (Note who's at number 4) Shifter's Top 2012 Draft Prospects Widely considered the best judge of talent around, he had Toumpas at number 3. Let's stop the revisionism and realize we took Toumpas exactly where he should have gone based on pre-draft info.
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Insightful post, top work! I don't think anyone is arguing against the whole Neeld overrule thing though are they? The phantom drafts were posted in reference to people saying we've taken so many "shock draft picks" where we've pulled something out of left field and not taken the player we were expected to with that pick. It's revisionism of the highest order to say Wines was always rated higher than Toumpas pre-draft, as some posters have suggested, especially given Wines' eventual draft order.
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It's scary, we're agreeing. Might be the apocalypse...
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Really? Not according to pretty much everyone that isn't just using hindsight... Herald Sun 2012 Phantom Draft AFL.com 2012 Phantom Draft Knightmares 2012 Phantom Draft Emma Quayle's 2012 Phantom Draft Take note of who ALL of them have us taking at number 4 and where Wines is in relation to that.
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1. Do you even realize how rigorous the interview/profiling process is for draftees? 2. You said: "welcome to the AFL - I hope you're not into getting drunk with your mates cos that's over for the next 10-15 years" Which clearly indicates you're saying it would be a surprise to them. 3. Do you understand what the word "average" means? It basically means "most common", so less than 3 years is the "most common" career time span, not just for those that "wash out". 4. Seriously if you think the social life of an AFL footballer is something that suffers due to their career you must have never been to a club/pub/bar/restaurant in your life.
Firstly, you'd think very few kids who have come through the system and been dedicated enough to make it to the elite level that is AFL would value getting drunk with their mates more than their football career. Secondly, it would hardly come as a surprise to them that that is the level of professionalism expected. Third, the average AFL career is less than 3 years. Forth, would hardly think the social life of an AFL footballer is something that deserves sympathy.
Exactly what I've been talking about here in this article... "This week, Sharks hooker Michael Ennis – who is about to play his 14th season of NRL – told the Big Sports Breakfast: "Throughout my whole career, and still to this day, when I go to training the people that the club employ … I have trust in those guys. Some people might call it naïve or whatever, but that's just what we do as professional athletes. Throughout my career, I place my trust in all of those people and I have never had any problems.""
I think their careers are their incentive. Both Carlisle and Melksham still have a fair few years left in them after serving their ban, and both have contracts that extend past this year. You're right about the AFL not comprehending the situation fully yet though. I reckon it's hit the players and that famous trust between player and coach is now a thing of the past, but possibly the coaches, admin and anyone in AFL leadership will only understand over time where they see that the trust has gone.
Don't think "completely cold" is accurate WYL. Maybe if they were 18 year olds brand new into the system, but Carlisle (and Melksham) have been around long enough to know what their fitness, dietary and training requirements are and should be able to keep it up off their own bat. Notwithstanding the fact that you would expect them to, at the very least, hire a personal trainer for the duration. Not so sure on Carlisle, but Melksham strikes me as the sort of person that would feel like he'd have something to prove in 2017 and that he owes us.
Yeah I get that. The context in which I was using those examples was the posters saying we might as well delist Melksham seeing he's going to miss a year. At 24, he still has plenty to offer us when he comes back and should be able to give us years of service, so seems silly to me to "cut our losses" as some put it.
