Webber

Actually it was a rhetorical question, and I was live at the G.

Don't apologise, you're just wrong. Bail was one of our best in the first half, and continued. I'm no fan of his, but he was good ALL day. Grimes first couple of touches were unsteady, but from then on he was secure and prolific. Any chance your default opinion of them means you lack objectivity?

Spencer is finally getting some games on end, getting a feel for it, and believing he deserves to be there. Make no mistake, he is highly rated by the coaching staff. Other than Naitanui, is there a faster ruckman in the AFL at his height? Most oppositions still think they can run away from him. His kicking is not terrible, and he takes a good mark. Still lots of upside to the pencil. We're getting more glimpses of the hard nut midfield that Roos and Stone are looking to create also. Viney is a monster, Tyson loves it in close, and Riley (pig dog) is yet to debut. If Michie finds some form, and Jordie McKenzie gets to just concentrate on his role each week, I think we can have a culture setting grunt of a midfield in the coming years.

6. N Jones.... Brilliant both ways 5. Tom McDonald..... Marshalled the back line 4. Jack Viney.....would have got a 2, but gets 2 extra for the 'don't argue' chest fend in 3rd. 3. Dan Cross.....a monster of effort and intent 2. Matt Jones..... fast, smart and fit 1. James Frawley......proper effort and great marking. Apologies to all the others.

Confession : I thought and stated that we couldn't win, in fact would go down by 10 goals. I said we wouldn't win a game this year, and that we were the worst AFL team since Fitzroy. WRONG!!!!!! And how! I offer my contrition to the players out there today, and any suggestions as to the nature of my penance from Demonlanders will be greatly received. Unless they involve public nudity. I would ask those Demonlanders who have laid derision on Matt Jones and Jake Spencer to fess up too. Do it, you'll feel better!

Carlton are weak rubbish. Sad to say, we are worse by 10 goals-ish.

Which team has been worse? Excluding Fitzroy pre-fold. The improvement you see in the second half is the hope I spoke of, but at this stage, I can't see where it's going to come from. That said, I'll be ecstatic to be wrong.

It's funny reading the delusion on here. Hope is all great, but delusion is, well, just that. You all realise we're the worst AFL team of the last 30 years, don't you? It would be the upset of a generation, and just isn't gonna happen.

I wish it were as simple as personnel. I think possibly the biggest part of our malaise is attitudinal. They have a complete absence of confidence..... In their own ability, in their teammates, in the 'team'. Any negative on-field occurrence, and that can be as simple as a couple of quick goals from the opposition, throws them into a fog of self doubt, second-guessing, and sense of helplessness and inevitability. They just have no experience of anything else. I don't doubt that Roos and Stone are the men to work on that, but as Roos has said, the scars are there. I believe those scars are just bigger than for any team at any time in my memory, and these kids in their twenties are grossly unable to see past them. The current media climate is also like no other time in history, and these young guys are more aware than ever that every move they make, every mistake, every time they fail, is scrutinised and judged by the football media, and hence the public, as a lack of heart, guts, application and ability. Thus, a huge diminishing of self worth. And you see it with some of the commentary on here, begging to see them just throw themselves into the fight, effectively suggesting they play for 'pride'. I truly believe that with each defeat, and each weekly negative assessment from outside, they have NO idea what playing for 'pride' might mean. What's so depressing is that I have the same lack of idea as to how this is going to change.

We really are a deluded bunch. Sunday was a horrible loss....29 scoring shots to 12. If dry, it would have been a 15 goal margin. Carlton will slaughter us to the tune of 10 goals plus. Ask around your mates who know footy and don't support us or the blues, then check the betting odds. They'll match up you'll find. We are the worst team in the AFL by a margin greater than GWS or the Suns were in their first seasons. It is pure fancy to believe we can compete with any of the other 17 teams, and all the football world knows it. So no, this is NOT the week

Nailed it!

Howe is a great taker of hangers, but one of the dumbest footballers going around, and the others also play for us.

Stop wondering. We will be winless. We are the worst AFL team since I've been watching footy (over 40 years). Yes, worse than pre-fold Fitzroy, worse than GWS or Suns in their first year. This is not coach repairable. It may be repaired through generational change, so 10 years or more, but it will see out Roos and the next two coaches, and our entire current list. The biggest concern however is how the club remains financially viable. Memberships will dive, sponsorship will jump, and the media, who unfortunately have too much control over central decision making, will want blood from anybody even vaguely connected with the club. They will turn Paul Roos, who came to this club with a seemingly impenetrable reputation, into their first kill. There's nothing they relish more than seeing the mighty fall, the tall poppies lopped. So good luck Roosy, they're gonna be coming for you....

29 scoring shots to 12 is a 15 goal victory by any reasonable conditions. We HAVE not improved, we are NOT more competitive. And we will NOT win a game this year. We WILL finish with a percentage worse than last year. These last two factors were the improvement measures Roos deemed that we could overcome. I honestly believed we couldn't be worse than last year. We are.

Simply, this is the worst AFL/VFL team I've ever seen. Roos or no, they are unsupportable. Outgutsed, out run, out thought. I could say some savage things about so many of our players, but what's the point? I thought I'd get some hope, some reason, some encouragement to follow the Dees this year, but there just isn't one solitary sign, not ONE, to maintain any interest.

Agree. That is our best 22. Very few teams get their best 22 out there for many games in a season, so a big part of the problem is depth. As a rebuilding team (again), ours is very very shallow.

Rubbish. Stuff just happens sometimes. Patterns of injuries in clubs, or even lack of injuries at this elite, professional level tell us nothing other than coincidence is a [censored], or a blessing, and high expectations make some people reach for blame and conspiracy. However you will keep rolling out that Misson is incompetent and the medical staff don't know what they're doing. Both claims based on the fact that we have injuries to important players.

Whether it is or not is irrelevant. It makes it no more or less oredictable

More pathetic presumption from posters on here. 'Chronic' means non acute. Thus, the injury occurs not from an incident but arises insidiously. It doesn't mean he's been labouring uncared for with a crippling pain. A 20 year old is susceptible to all sorts of injuries, of which stress reactions in the back are one. He's a huge unit on a still developing skeleton. Any amount of the normal load in training that all the others are doing by the way could present as an issue, based on an inherent vulnerability. This can happen because ' everybody's different'. Shocking I know. Still, those of you who want to push the mismanagement argument, keep going, cos ignorance is bliss I guess.

As a physiotherapist, a lot of the assumptions and assumed knowledge on here are frankly garbage. The reality is that soft tissue injuries do not present as a perfect formula. At best we give a framework management and likely return date at the point of diagnosis. This crystallises as the injury heals. Then we start to push toward 'game standard' training, having done everything as needed. Most of the time the plan stays on track, but sometimes that push to the next level results in symptoms. So we reassess and re calibrate the management. And so it goes again. It ISN'T a perfect system, and no matter how many forwards we have injured at once, and how many games we lose and by how much, it never will be. I know a lot of you want someone to blame, someone to be accountable for the rubbish like Saturday. The extension being that if we sack them and get the 'proper' person in, they'll solve it. The fitness and medical staff ARE NOT TO BLAME, so you're not going to ease your frustration and anger by wishing it were so.

Jimmy Toumpas played well yesterday. He's getting the pace of the game with each outing, is creative, clever with his disposals, and has a great tank for a kid his age. The negative absolutism on here in savaging someone who has played a handful of games for a rubbish team is just pathetic. As our youngest 2 players (excl JKH) out there, he and Dom Tyson showed a lot yesterday. Many of the comments on here are simply embarrassing.

Gawn will be out 3 weeks minimum. Fitz out, as he was subbed and Roos wasn't happy. Viney in, otherwise, who knows, and it ain't gonna matter. The whole 'improving from the 2 win 50% team of last year' is looking horribly unlikely. Who could we beat this year? I'm coming up with nobody right now, and certainly not GWS at home.....

6. N Jones 5. D Tyson 4. L Dunn 3. D Cross 2. M Jones 1. J Toumpas

Brett Lovett was the half back flank version of Peter Daicos, low centre of gravity, never got caught, read the play brilliantly, never fluffed a disposal, and created. S**t he was good!