DeeSpencer

That depends. A new coach with a new and more successful game plan could dramatically change my mind if I was a disenchanted player. I would let Frawley concentrate on playing now, we do have the entire month of September to focus on future plans by which time the football department might look vastly different.

I'm guessing on that one. But if you at the trend in APS sports that started with Cyril Rioli at Scotch the APS schools started justifying their sports scholarships that help their footy teams based on taking Indigenous kids. I know MGS jumped on board with Steven May who was actually recruited in an US college style pledge from both MGS and Scotch.

I had no point. It was more an observation. I won't apologise for calling a fair skinned person fair skinned. The rest of my posts in this thread explain my other thoughts.

Rohan Bail/Dan Nicholson/other expendable player to hit Ballantyne in the nuts.

Before expansion Bottom team = pick 1, pick 17, pick 33 etc Top team = pick 16, pick 32, pick 48 During expansion Gold coast = 12 unlisted 17 year olds plus QLD zone selctions, plus picks 1,2,3,5,7,9 etc Bottom team = pick 4 (which minus players above = real value pick 7 ish - Josh Toy, Brandon Matera, Zac Smith etc), pick 26 = pick 35, pick 44 = pick 60. So before Gold Coast came in if you finished last you got picks 1, 17, 33 The year Gold Coast came in you got picks equal to value of 7, 35, 60. Whilst previous top teams got pick 16, 32 and 48. Ie. finishing top in 2009 got you as much reward as finishing last in 2010. It's on this basis that teams who were up the top of the ladder and had done well in the the 2007-2009 period of recruiting particularly were going to stay up the ladder. That's the effect Gold Coast had on the draft. And it's not the top end where it hurt the most, but the bottom end. You can still find a talent with your first pick but you couldn't turn over the list quick enough. Our 2010 draft: Cook, Howe, Davis, McDonald. Rookie: Nicholson, Evans, Lawrence, Cam Johnston, Rob Campbell, Tom McNamara Our 2011 draft: pick 12 (Clark), Taggert, Tynan, Sellar. Rookie: Sheehan, Couch, Magner, Williams Fair to say all we got out of these periods so far is Mitch Clark, Tom McDonald a couple of nice depth mature types in Magner and Sellar and a bit of hope in Howe, Evans and Taggert. For a team that was still a long way off in 2010 and was half a disaster in 2011 you can say we needed more than that. It just didn't make sense for the list to be undergoing massive turnover in this period because the talent wasn't there. What point would there have been to throw out half the list if this is what we'd get put in.

Rest easy Walters is out injured.

Actually he's just as likely wrong about moving to Melbourne Grammar to develop his football. TAC clubs and recruiters bemoan regularly that private school kids don't get TAC time and therefore can be underdeveloped. They hate that the kids have to train separately from their squads and play APS/AGS football. If the kid was already at Murray Bushrangers and heading towards Vic Country then coming to boarding school in Melbourne may not help his footy at all. Recruiters find it hard to judge APS football because the standard is hugely variable so he will be diminishing his chances to play TAC footy and show off his talents. And I never said he wasn't deserving of his scholarship, he's obviously a good kid, a good footballer and has an indigenous background. But if I was offering scholarships to join an indigenous program I wouldn't pick the fair skinned kid who's friends don't know he's indigenous (ie. he doesn't openly display his culture) who grew up in the tough streets of Mooroopna and just got back from a holiday to the US.

Well my perspective is more why do the youngest and least successful members of the team get their games discussed. Seems a double standard.

Yeah maybe, but this guys great great grandfather was half indigenous. Now presuming he doesn't have any more indigenous heritage that makes him 1/64 indigenous which is why he as he says "because I don't have dark skin, people look at me and don't think I'm indigenous". Now I'm not saying the guy has no right to claim he's indigenous or be proud of indigenous culture but what about his white heritage. Should he celebrate his great great grandfather for being a top bloke because that's what it sounds like he was more than whatever background he was. The thing that irks me about the situation is this bit "He started his scholarship at Melbourne Grammar when he was 16 because he felt that if he moved there, his football would be seen by more people than if he stayed back at home in Mooroopna. But he also knew it would make him a better student, that he would concentrate harder, creating other opportunities. The school's indigenous program has helped him to think about what else he would like to do, though football is what he loves more than anything." I mean if Melbourne Grammar want to justify handing out scholarships to help their footy team and also teach their students a thing or two by an indigenous program why don't they go into Yuendumu and get the next Liam Jurrah out of that hell hole. Get a fully initiated indigenous man living in third world conditions and give him an education so he's worldly enough to not get into trouble when he goes home and can help the community. He said he never felt held back by his hertiage and at the same time isn't sure his heritage is widely known.

Ok maybe it's just me but every week the club trots out a VFL review by one of the assistant coaches about the guys at Casey. Now it's a bit school report version usually with possession and whether they tried hard or not but people pick up on comments and run with them. To me it's not fair that the developing and the struggling players on our list have their games analyzed weekly whilst the lucky 22 who come in and play each week escape it. Obviously they get a whole bunch more scrutiny in the media and AFL games are more accessible but for me if it's fair for the battlers it should be fair for the guys playing seniors. Maybe Mark Neeld could sit down for 10 minutes weekly and trot out a few lines. That way at least the players can't complain he's never giving them feedback. It will be there for all to see on the lovely melbournefc.com.au

I'm not sure they are as keen on Frawley as this rumour sounds. Up forward they have Dixon, May and Lynch developing nicely. All have different attributes but Dixon can back up ruck and has great mobility for his size. Lynch is their top forward prospect and has nice hands and May as a bit shorter and heavier and is a more a bulldozer type. It's allowed them to have Thompson looking the goods at CHB and now they are giving Sam Day a shot at full back and he's going pretty well. They also have their top pick from the 2011 draft in Henry Schade 196cm Tasmanian defender who hasn't had a chance yet. I'm not sure on his progress. The suns also rate Warnock. Plus they have some other tall kids on the list. If we traded Frawley we'd end up with McDonald, Sellar and Pedersen as our talls. I really don't rate Davis but we better include him as well. So we'd have 2 kids with dodgy kicking who aren't great one on one defenders and 2 big lump types who really should be depth. So we'd have to ask for one of Gold Coast's young defenders in return as well as mids I'd say. I'm not sure who would be openly happy to sit watching games with Sellar and Pedersen holding down key spots. Especially given their ages its not like these guys are 21.

Bugger the PC stuff at the risk of being labelled Andrew Bolt I'll say it: Dude is white!

I agree, but the midfield is no place for shrinking violets. Watts would be a major liability at clearances and around the ground because I'm yet to be impressed by his work rate. So that's why half back makes sense. Eventually down the track I think he'll prove a bit tall and cumbersome for inside mid unless he starts acting like Adam Goodes but I certainly think he could play the wing very well. The hunger for the contest and running has to be displayed.

What exactly did Tapscott, Toumpas, Bail and Jetta produce up forward in his absence? Davey obviously was good but the other 4 provided nothing. Of course none of them nor Byrnes are stars but you'd think in at least an average side that has some idea how to retain the footy you'd see much higher disposal counts and more goals.

"The 16 year old made his debut for the Glenelg reserves" And people gave us heat for playing Viney in the VFL last year when he was 18 and ready for it, whilst in the SANFL 16 year olds play reserves! Good stuff.

Geelong: Blicavs, West, Pods, Lonergan, Stokes, Guthrie - There's a few who did it the hard way or are in for defensive nature. And based on what I've seen from Terlich he looks as much a battler as Harry Taylor, has plenty of class was recruited at 21 ish age. Don't get me started on Freo with DeBoer, Pearce, Dawson, Spurr, Bradley the list goes on and on. If Grimes, Sylvia, Viney fit Trengove and Watts then all of a sudden there is no more Bail, Nicholson and McKenzie or Magner. Toumpas doesn't get injured and comes along strong and we get rid of another one. This is the where the GWS/Gold Coast have hurt us. They didn't take away our top picks but took a tonne of depth out of the draft and meant we had to go for Terlich, Matt Jones, Taggert and Tynan guys who would usually go further down in rounds of drafts. I hate taking positives from Richmond but they are at the stage where they should worry about carrying too many low ceiling players like Jackson and King who are clear best 22 but not with a huge potential. We can wait until we get to that stage.

Thus my statement one swallow doesn't make a summer. If I've learnt anything from footy I've learnt don't get a feeling about something after a player does it once! Otherwise my feelings about Juice Newton being a star and Dean Bailey a super coach might have come true by now!

One swallow doesn't make a summer. Was a nice effort but doesn't make up for all the ones he didn't go hard at. And its not contests in the air or at the ball mainly its things like tackles where he has to stick them and instead lets the player run straight past.

I would've thought about Stringer from the dogs if you wanted inside midfielder. When he gets fit enough he will be an absolute beast, make you ask Ollie who?

I can not agree more! Unfortunately with Toumpas out and Bail completely useless we must be scraping the bottom of the barrel which will likely mean Watts back in.And if we are going to play him we know it can't be forward he won't get a kick against any of Freo's decent defenders. For all those who think he's a forward they should look around the league and see how many 6'4'' 90kg forwards who are timid at the contest and can't take a strong overhead mark to save themselves get games in the AFL. Especially compared to how they go down in the backline when their opponent gives them somewhere to play from and they can use their height, speed and sumblime skills. If Watts has his head in the game and is attacking the ball and defending with desperation he will start to fulfill his potential down back and eventually build strength and even take more dangerous opponents.

Swap Lyon and Neeld and we aren't winning games overnight. Freo have a team of hard running, experienced and tough players. They have the team needed to p With Pav out they don't have the big forwards but in Mayne, Ballantyne and particularly Walters they have 3 dangerous forwards. Down back they have experienced quality players - McPharlin, Dawson, Ibbotson, Spurr, Duffield, Johnson - pretty much guys not only clearly as good as our guys but with the experience as well Then their midfield is so superior to ours you can't compare. Fyfe and Mundy are better than Jones and Barlow is as good then even if Hill is out they have guys like the Pearce's, Mzungu and others who are super hard workers. There is a reason Ross Lyon doesn't play many kids. It's because his game plan is hard to implement and not effectively if you don't have the fitness. At the end of the day Lyon would be getting much better results than Neeld because he makes players give 100% with him and is motivating, but I refuse to think we'd all of a sudden be anywhere near the top 8.

It's impossible to judge the drop mark being his fault or not. I was always taught that the guy behind either calls a player out of a contest or calls them back to take the mark. Davey puts a bit of zip on his kick so he might have thought it was too far for Howe and should've called him out or he might of thought Howe could get it and therefore should've called him back. As I said without being there you can't judge who was right or wrong.

1. Never had a high fitness base, this is due to a combination of three things 1.1 Not a natural aerobic athlete 1.2 Poor fitness training across the club and individually 1.3 Poor standards at the club set by coaches/players - ie. no Geelong Ablett/Stevie J moments 2. Knee injury - Davey has a degenerative knee injury that got worse around 2011 3. Davey not coming back in good shape at all following knee injury in 2012 preseason The reason Davey doesn't play more time up the ground is perfectly highlighted in the passage of play where Vlastuin runs off him and kicks a goal.

What's wrong with that kick? As long as its not under pressure and to a free man it then opens up both sides of the field. I always thought the classic Malthouse/Neeld game plan was the move the ball via the boundary when under pressure and to players leading towards the boundary so a missed kick goes out of bounds or over the back but it is also designed to open large chunks of room in the middle of the ground to take advantage of. From the CHB position the player should always be able to find someone back wide if there aren't any sensible safe options more directly towards goal. EDIT: That said if the options are a loose man on the wing or a slow kick to CHB I'd rather the long kick and get things moving.

Sellar was good, but.... Vickery still had quite a few reasonable shots on goal that he missed. Now with the delivery he was getting he was always going to get some but I'd say it was a good average performance from Sellar. He needs to get involved in moving the play out from the backline more as well. He should be a target from the kick outs when he's playing tall defender because whilst he struggles to mark he can bring the ball to ground. I don't think you can play Tom McDonald and Sellar. At the moment Sellar has that position. McDonald's defensive work and kicking undid all his hard running to create and therefore I think he should earn his spot back at Casey. Dunn is looking good in the third tall spot with Garland the versatile tall/small. Watts is fighting against Terlich (who is playing super footy) and Strauss who is doing well defensively and using the ball when he gets it just not getting involved enough. You can throw Watts in as the 7th defender and either drop Nicholson or play him entirely on a wing - ie. he takes Toumpas' spot. But in that case one of the 7 defenders has to play more midfield time. I'm not sure whether you'd use Watts on a wing or Strauss/Terlich or Garland even. You could actually play 7 defenders are give all 4 I just mentioned some time on the wing depending on their opponents. I'd be interested to see if Strauss can get more ball if playing up on a wing. He's just not finding space when he's doing a good job of defending but then staying very central and not bursting out for the ball. Then again he also doesn't call for it in bad situations like Nicholson does and isn't afraid of playing building slowly not at a million miles a minute. Terlich is the one who looks ready made for some time in the midfield but I don't want to ruin what is a good thing down back.