DeeSpencer

Damaging to who? He runs hard to get the ball and he has clean reliable hands over head and in traffic. That's a useful player even if unsuited to the wing. Oliver, Viney, Brayshaw and Harmes are the starting mids, but we can cover them with Petracca, Vanders (if he stays), Nath Jones (short term next year should be young enough to provide some inside midfield cover), Maynard - who's both overrated and underrated on here but can play if given a chance and even ANB or Salem if required. Plus inside mid is the easiest position to pick up a state league or delisted player.

Not sure Kent moving affects Tyson. Vanders does and so does the ability to land KK and potentially 1 more ready to play outside mid. If we Vanders goes and we find 2 replacements then Tyson goes. If Vanders stay and we add KK then Tyson goes as well. He might have value now. After next season barring improvements or change in position I can't see him having any trade value. So if we can cash in on his value now we should. Anything top 40 in the draft or of similar value would be enough to me.

That's probably true, but watching the GF has me thinking you don't need to be a great team to win it. You just have to get in the right spot - ideally top 4, with the right game plan and enough talent and have it go your way. The Eagles have some guns - a great line up of talls, a bit of polish on the flanks and some quality mids. But they also had Masten on a wing, young Cole down back, LeCras who's way past it forward, Venables who they limited to 55% game time and all the guys I mentioned are locks in their 22 and better than the emergencies. Pies are a bit the same with Greenwood, Mayne, Aish etc. One way to spin that is get the stars in and find the depth when you need it, but I also think the opposite applies where you need players who might be lacking in multiple areas but can just do enough to stay in the game. Vanders speed, size and hardness makes him the right kind of bottom of the 22 player the way teams are going these days. It's very hard to assemble a list of 25 better than him.

Tampa, Seattle, KC

I'd say the way he came back in to the side after only a minimum number of VFL games tells me he's highly valued. KK and Fritsch might be the starting wingmen next year, in which case Vanders could be out of the 22. But if Tyson goes as well then there's very little depth there so he'd be next picked on a wing, next picked at half forward and just as likely next picked on ball. Hard to see him dropping outside the top 26 or so unless we do some really strong mature age recruiting. I couldn't see how his form this year plus a full preseason doesn't equate to being a guy you expect to play more weeks than not if healthy. 1 year deals are really for guys who are 30+, fringe players or dealing with ongoing serious injuries. The MFC will know Vanders injury prognosis better than we do that's for sure but from all I've read after a long period of attempted conservative treatment he had surgery and has come back well. If he wants big money then it would be fair to say have 1 year of big money and we'll reassess, but if his financial demands are reasonable maybe with a lot incentives then I don't think his injury issues are enough to prevent a 2 year deal. If he was to leave purely because we don't offer a 2nd year I'd expect that to the be the reason. I doubt list spots in 2020 will be a huge issue, they aren't right now and I don't think having too many similar players or too many older players will be an issue then either. I couldn't see him not being given another year for 2020 if he played 2019 in his current form even if better depth meant he gets dropped a few times. To me that all means it's the risk of injury that is the main factor.

Dominates VFL in 2017, gets a new 1 year deal, doesn't do much at AFL level, coasts through preseason from the sessions I saw, did little at Casey for half a year, then all of a sudden finds some form, gets back in the team and plays like a guy with some flaws but still something to offer. Was one of the most energetic trainers when he arrived at the club. If he trains to his absolute max over summer I think he'd find the space and tempo he's missing at AFL level. Still young enough that he can make that leap from boy to man.

Looking at the state leagues top goal kickers. Shane McAdam - my mail is Carlton pick and trade him back to the Crows Tyson Strengle - out of contract Tiger rumoured to go to the Crows Anyone in the West know anything about Cody Ninyette or Michael Bennell?

A healthy Jack Viney has excellent burst speed, not sure how anyone could watch our finals and say otherwise. He is short but in no ways small. Dion Johnstone has some pace and is being groomed as a small defender to lock down on the small forwards, his main attribute is excellent tackling with a nice kick. No idea if he's good enough, not even convinced he has a new contract yet but he can be developed as the next Jetta in some regards. He'll be sent to play on 175cm opponents. Spargo has enough speed and footy smarts to succeed as a small forward flanker. Most of football is running to the right spots, clean hands and smarts. JKH is depth. We have very few sub 6 foot players. I'm not convinced that 180-185 (5'11 to 6'1) guys are at a huge disadvantage to 185-190cm players. Good teams use the ball well, pressure and help to defend, a few cm's here or there doesn't impact if the team has the right balance. I agree Vanders has more than the average fringe or 15th best player on a list, but I wouldn't limit what we need to only bigger bodies. We need a mix of players. I'd take the shortest player in the league coming in for Vanders if he's a gun. Zak Jones at 183cm shouldn't be overlooked due to size. We should worry if we need him due to his skills and overall talent, but he can be a great half back flanker at 183cm. Rory Laird is 177cm and a gun.

Tom Mitchell just won the Brownlow at 181cm and Richmond won the flag with Rioli (179), Shane Edwards (182), Lambert (178) and Butler (182). Of course little guys have to be quick, but small pressure forwards aren't a liability they are a must and smaller mids who get the ball from the deck are back in fashion after teams loaded up on 190cm Fyfe like bulls and became too slow. Vanders will be a loss if he goes, but the best way to maximise Gawn, Oliver, Gus, Petracca and Harmes will be with some run, pressure and skill to go with them. I love Vanders because he brings some size and grunt, but he also brings tackle pressure and run like a smaller player.

Was hoping Lockhart finished 20th. Poor from Casey.

I'm a huge fan, I think his grunt and attitude flows through the rest of the team and that's the style we want to play. So I really want to keep him, but I also think there's a point where the contract becomes too risky or silly even if the draft return from Sydney isn't great. And that's without factoring in Aaron's actual preference even if money isn't a factor. I would hope if the money isn't a factor we can win him over with other ways to support him - extra time off, business mentoring etc. The Swans drafted Ollie Florent after his father passed away when the family didn't want him leaving Melbourne. They met with the family pre draft and worked out what was required to make it work. Hopefully that's the kind of thing we are doing with Vanders. The money has to have a max limit otherwise you're costing yourself future players if he doesn't perform to value. Melksham and Petracca are already preferred as the medium forwards. Hannan can probably fill that role as well. Petracca can build his fitness and play the forward/midfield hybrid role that Vanders is best suited to. So we find some wingmen to cover his potential in that area of the ground as well which isn't easily but maybe Stretch, Baker, Fritsch and bring in Kade Kolo plus more draft/trades.

Not really interested in quotes about 18 year olds who are better than the other kids. I don't care what the stop watch says if the guy can't run down players or burst through the lines and run with the ball. Pies forward line tomorrow will feature De Goey, Stephenson, WHE, Josh Thomas, Varcoe. Eagles will have Ryan, Rioli, Cripps. Richmond obviously led the way with their smalls. KK is perfectly quick enough to play half back in a role, or even play on a wing which is where he might be best suited - I haven't seen him play there so that's more of a projection based on attributes. But Hibberd and Jetta are likely to slow down - Jetta might've already, Hunt might not be an AFL player, Wagner is below par speed for an AFL half back, DJ we aren't sure about. Joel Smith has excellent athleticism but isn't a skilled player likely to run with the ball. Frost is Frost. Where's the half backs who can run with speedy forwards and really run and carry the ball out? I certainly want KK for a reasonable price and think he could easily replace Lewis with some confidence. But an ageing Hibberd could be moved in to Lewis' role from 2020. Or possibly Nath Jones next year. Or Fritsch with a bit more defensive training and strength. From a needs basis I think we need a linebreaking defender (which may be Hunt) and to recruit a future Hibberd (a quick excellent defensive player - which may be Smith). Certainly we need a wingman or two as well which is where he might fit in. I like the guy. I want him if he's good value. But I don't think for a rebounding flanker type he's above the average speed for that position and that's a concern to me.

I believe you can have 38 main list spots with 6 A rookies or 39/5 or 40/4. So they might keep the flexibility until the draft period. Given cat A players can play without restriction these days I don't think it matters much.

We can try, but he's the 2nd least tradeable player on Freo's list behind Fyfe. They'd be mad to even consider trading him.

A long term deal could convince Dom. I'm not sure spending another year on the wing or in the 2's helps him secure that at Melbourne. That said, the Suns have quite a few inside mids they want to play along with kids, so they might not be keen on him either.

The Suns might just be selling it that they are happy to let him go. I'd be very keen to get him. IIRC I think he was one of the reasons we traded back in the Kelly/Salem fiasco. We thought he was a good chance to be available at pick 9. That said, I do have some doubts. 1. The concussions. I hope they are sorted with this neck business 2. Speed. He's not slow, but he's not quick either, as the game gets faster you can't carry many defenders who are above average speed 3. Position fit. Is he a wingman? I'm not sure. I think he's more of a half back flanker with some intercept and skill but not great defensive skills. A pretty nice replacement for Lewis but not a huge need I wouldn't have thought. 4. He'd be the 3rd guy we've bought in as a failed high(ish) pick that we liked in the draft, after Kennedy and Balic. Sometimes you have t concede that your rating was wrong or the development has been wrong.

Ok this has me interested

They can get McGovern with a trade of one of their mature age selections, Shane McAdam, remember the name, barring that they can work up from their 2nd round pick. Crows are not unhappy to let him go. His value is more pick 15-20 than anything near a top 10. Shiel for Carlton's future first round pick is a pretty good deal to me. Puts the pressure on Carlton to win games so it's not a top 3 pick. But the combination of Shiel, McGovern, a healthy Sam Docherty, at least mature player pick up and a ready to play number 1 pick is a substantial improvement. Carlton aren't nearly as devoid of talent as their 2018 made out to be. Curnow, McKay and Pickett forward. Cripps, Murphy, Kennedy, Dow, Fisher, SPS, O'Brien in the midfield. Marchbank, Docherty, Wietering, Plowman down back. If I'm Shiel and they're offering me 1.2 mil a year I wouldn't be completely scared of going there. Might not win a heap in 2019 but I can get handballs from Cripps all game. 30 of the easiest touches you'll ever get.

Harris Andrews plays his best games as an intercepting CHB whilst Darcy Gardiner at 194cm takes all the dangerous goal kickers. Ben Brown and Daniher are scary 200cm forwards but the Coleman is still dominated by guys like Riewoldt, Franklin, Kennedy and Tommy Mc. Recent draftees like Schache and Boyd haven't looked mobile enough at 200cm. Mason Cox played a great game, but his opponent came straight from the sick bay, his other finals were ineffectual, any decent defender who can get body on can negate mostly him. Whilst 190cm Jordan De Goey looked the real danger man for the Pies for most of the year. We can develop Petty as a CHB at 197cm, we can use Oscar in that spot too and we can have Lever coming across and leaping for spoils. What we don't have on the list at the moment is a reliable full back who can win contests deep in the backline.

They think he's soft, which he might be. Was moved forward to try to deliver some skill and goals when the wing wasn't working out for him this season.

Hey we can ask for the world and I hope we do but I'd also be willing to settle eventually. Maybe 1 quality piece is more important than finding multiple options but I'm yet to see what the very high quality piece in the deal would be unless they give us a top 5 pick and enough to get May. I think where we disagree is on Hogan's potential to be a generational player. I haven't felt that way about his since his first year. Whether that's injuries, confidence or personal issues or not I'm not seeing it.

10, 15, 68 for 37 and 43. Makes Lever's value at pick 7, although that calculator always overrated high picks and we took a risk that we'd finish strongly and the Crows wouldn't. Hogan's foot v Lever's knees. Hogan's struggles against top teams v Lever's struggles one on one. If Freo give us pick 5 outright and Port are willing to split it to picks 9 and 10 then we're off to a good start. Otherwise if Freo give us pick 10 and Langdon but we can upgrade pick 32 to pick 18 with the Suns then that's worth consideration. May, 18 and Langdon is turning 1 big piece in to 3 useful pieces.

How many quick classy outside runners in the comp are there? A couple at GWS, McCluggage at Brisbane, Stephen Hill on his day (who we should look in to), Gaff who's about to go to North for a fortune. It isn't a long list. Even with average skills a quick outside runner would be an upgrade on what we currently have. I don't think Hogan with a foot injury and only a year to run on his deal is fetching us 2 high quality assets unless you count mid to late first round picks. If May is 1 high quality asset then another useful player like Langdon and then something extra on the side ends up a pretty reasonable package to me. Edit: Just thinking about it I reckon we can probably get May for cheaper than I originally thought. I'd probably want the 3rd part of a May and Langdon deal to be a bit stronger than a pick upgrade. Maybe if we chucked in our own 2nd round pick and got back to the first round.

Nic Nat is on big money as their main ruck. Lycett is about to leave for cash and opportunity. Vardy was a cheap bargain buy back up. Kennedy should be on big money, Darling on just solid very good player money, he had a career best start to the year but otherwise has always been more of a B+ type to me. Eagles big money guys are likely Nic Nat, Kennedy, McGovern, Shuey and if he isn't already then soon to be Yeo. Then they have a number of solid guys like Hurn, Redden, Shepherd who should all be above average without breaking the bank. We could keep Tommy Mc, Weeds and Hogan. I think if happy Hogan would make big but not out of control money, same with Tommy Mc's rumoured 800. Weid's out of contract next year. The greater issue is whether they'd all play together well, what that means for team performance and if it justifies spending all the money on one position group. From a purely financial point of view I think spending Hogan's money on a key defender and an outside midfielder would balance the list and create a better side.

Think we should at least inquire about a pair of Jacks. Lonie - a far from perfect footballer but would be an option in the crumbing small forward role. Small, not blistering pace and a little soft but he has smarts. Would be about a straight swap for Kent Newnes - long kicking wingman who Saints fans really dislike after this year. Would probably need a pick thrown in with Kent