DeeSpencer

I don't think either Goodwin or Mahoney are going anywhere, so I guess it's about changing the staff under them. Todd Viney is still listed as the list manager, but I wonder what his role actually is in terms of decision making. Jason Taylor probably has enough runs on the board, but maybe they need to mix up the guys helping him. Misson's replacement is the big one. Head of fitness is probably one of the top 5 most important people at the club. Then changes to the assistant coaches. From what I've seen in years before going to summer trainings Goodwin and Rawlings would take the main drills and be quite vocal and really keep on the players about the standards. This year seemed more relaxed which I hoped meant everything was flowing nicely but in hindsight meant things were probably slipping. Skills were decent and the effort was there but I think we just lacked the intensity, hardly a surprise looking at that now giving how many experienced players were in rehab. We need some innovative assistants but to also make sure trainings are at the standard. I still think the list is good, maybe short one A grader with some pace/skill and then just needs some running talents to replace the older guys. We aren't right up with the top 3 or so lists but I look at Port who dropped away awfully last year and then mixed things up and are now looking very good, maybe not top 4 yet but with a healthy prognosis. Port made a huge amount of win now trades the last few years and it didn't really cost them. As long as you're adding good players and developing talent you aren't too far off bouncing back.

Sorry got my PJ and Roos comments mixed up. PJ was going to get a senior footy manager, then decided to keep Mahoney once Roos came on board. Happy for Mahoney to grow in the role. I guess my question now is was PJ right? Or did Roos do enough to make sure Mahoney had everything sorted. Similarly with the assistants, yes Goodwin clearly wanted many of them, but I think Roos and Mahoney had to make sure Goodwin was picking the right people. McCartney was a logical hire to follow on from Roos as a guy with a wealth of experience, I hope it's working out that way now. Rawlings was a guy Roos kept around. A lot of the newer Goodwin hires started out when Roos was still in charge, even if Goody picked them Roos should've given his opinion. Roos got the list in a much better shape but I want to know why we've been so slow to react to the need for more run and skill in the side. Might be harsh to not spread the blame equally but the Hawks were winning flags in 13-15 with hard running wings, skills and run from the backline and multiple pressure small forwards. Roos left us with Hunt and Hibberd firing at half back but Stretch and Bugg on the wings? Garlett as the only small forward? I'm not so much anti Roos I just think this season is still within the lag time of his legacy. It's not Goodwin coming in and destroying Roos' work, it's their shared legacy going balls up. If Roos really got things heading in the right direction then we should bounce back next year!

Our 3 biggest issues: 1. Fitness and injuries: The club has hinted at times about reviewing the fitness program but never made a move on Misson 2. Skill development: Roos oversaw most of the current assistant coach appointments 3. List management: keeping over the hill veterans and cloggers, not enough focus on speed and run. Why? Probably because Roos and Goodwin have been so insistent on contested ball rather than take chances on kids with upside. Josh Mahoney in charge of the footy department rather than the initial plan of Roos getting an experienced head to stay on after he went. I can't imagine Neil Balme being pleased with the way we play at the moment, I think he would've done wonders getting Goody and the recruiting team on a path to success. Roos' legacy was meant to be using his knowledge and connections to train up a coaching and football department. As it stands Neeld bought in Jason Taylor, Misson and reassigned Mahoney and all 3 have probably done a good job on the whole but have hit some troubled waters of late. The main Roos appointment left is Ben Matthews as the midfield coach.

The game changed and big bodied crash and bash mids are now too slow to play in the same side as each other. The defend before attack line was straight PR. We didn't know how to defend under Roos, we just flooded back and took the pace out of games. Our midfield worked very hard defensive and took down some big names but it wasn't a consistent defensive strategy. It was when Goodwin took over for round 23 2015 and 2016 that we finally added some zone defending and became a team playing proper AFL football with a 2 way focus. I'm not a Roos basher. He did phenomenally well in a tough gig. I just don't buy his catch phrases.

I somewhat agree, although Dunn was fat as a house and couldn't run. Had a few personal issues that summer I'm led to believe. And now his career is likely over. The lack of development of key backs - Frost and Oscar and otherwise - under Roos and since remains an issue. We should've stocked up on plenty of talls and had them come through the pipeline. Not superstars, just solid defenders. I'm also concerned Oscar and ANB were very Roos picks instead of going for talent. And somehow one of the great rebounding tall defenders of all time couldn't convince Jeremy Howe he was a defender, nor value his game. If Howe stays we never chase Lever. There's also the cost of bringing in guys like Hibberd, Melk, Garlett, Bugg, Vince etc to get instant improvement - much needed but has cost us valuable picks now.

FB: Hibberd Oscar Hore HB: J Wagner Frost Salem C; Stretch Oliver Brayshaw HF: Petracca Keilty Hunt FF: T. Smith Preuss Garlett Foll: Gawn Harmes Melksham Int: Fritsch Lockhart Sparrow Jones Out: Viney (inj), T Mc (inj), Weid, Lewis, ANB In: Sparrow, Oscar, Preuss, J Wagner, Keilty No point playing injured players, no point playing Lewis. May as well go back taller up forward to hopefully stop Sicily taking 85 marks. Keep the focus on heavy rotations with the midfield and give young Sparrow a job on O'Meara for part of the game at least. Edit: Tommy's tendinitis might be ok after a longer break so he probably stays in, wouldn't mind the idea of him starting back but swapping with Keilty if by some miracle we aren't out of the game at half time.

Clear sling tackle. No concussion = no penalty. Clear facial treatment. No free kick, no retaliation. Just weak. How they didn't fly the flag when Stretch was cleaned up was beyond me. Maybe they were all worried after Razor Ray told them all off last week.

Even last year I wasn't a huge Brayshaw fan. Great hands around the contest and can rack the ball up but I'll forever be concerned he's slow and can't kick. Runs with the ball but can't break free and then kicks under pressure = turnover = struggling to transition. I'd absolutely weigh up off load him for line breaking speed and skill if it were on offer. Moving Gus to a wing last night was an indication they are concerned about his defensive running and/or defensive pressure at the contest and ball use. The Oliver, Viney, Brayshaw combination doesn't seem right for where the game is going with multiple midfielders who have elite endurance and speed. That said, I'd like to know just how fit Clarrie, Gus and Viney are, if they are all at 80% then the easier thing to do is get them fit.

I thought our forwards worked their backsides off defensively. Lockhart/ANB/Hunt/T Smith in particular. It's the quality of forward entries and the ease of the defenders to win the ball back that created very little at ground level. Bombs to 2 on 1's for easy intercepts for Grimes/Vlastuin, or lowering the eyes then kicking it straight to a Richmond player because our forwards are all leading back and in to each other instead of a mix that involves some of them presenting up and keeping their opponents honest. The few times we did have forwards coming up at the ball the mid/backs were then under pressure and hacked a kick to where their team mate had just led from. Of course a lot of that comes because our midfield has no forward momentum, we can't get the ball to someone in the clear from stoppages and we can't do it in general play because the backline offers no drive or rebound.

He sure did, dropped a few he should've taken but at least got separation and hands to it. Sam is jumping nowhere near it. It's time to give Keilty a go as well.

Fitness looks really poor and his confidence is shot, but for hecks sake at least last week he had a run and jump at some. Tonight was just ridiculous seeing him lead back, across and absolutely no where near leading up to the ball carrier. The only time he had a decent contest under a kick there were multiple team mates dragging their opponent to him. Awful game, and time for him to go back to the 2's, but probably can't judge everything on tonight or on any games this year given how bad we've been. He can't be getting good coaching or an efficient forward set up.

Exactly, at least give it a go. The only game our mids stuck with their opponents was against the Swans - and suddenly our forward line looked dangerous and our backline looked capable. In current form ANB isn't tackling, using the ball or running to the right spots to be of any use as a forward, but maybe using his legs we can get some value from him.

Would actually like to see ANB played in the centre square and given the freedom to run all over the ground. Test some of the Tigers mids for fitness. I know he'll be ineffective with the ball but it's not like we are dominating clearances as is. Then our actual mids can all spend more time resting forward and play at a higher work rate when in the middle. The wings have copped a lot of the blame for the lack of transition running but if you watch the games it's actually Oliver, Brayshaw and Viney who are even further behind play. Harmes is about the only one sticking with it.

Hard to get enthused about those ins but it's about the best we can do. If Lewis is going to play then it has to be down back as the 7th quickest defender. So Josh Wagner makes way. Unlucky for Josh but he'll have a chance to earn his spot back and whilst my mind is made up that Lewis is done the coaches probably think he's worth another look I guess. Hunt probably goes back to replace Jetta with more speed coming in to the forward line in Jeffy. Stretch comes in on a wing in the spot vacated by Lewis going back, that's obvious. Lockhart as fresh legs for C Wagner. ANB for Spargo probably the only choice I didn't love but if there was ever a game to pick the fittest player on the list it's when both teams are coming off a 4 day break. And I never liked Preuss and 2 big tall forwards who offer nothing defensively. Tim Smith makes a lot more sense as the 3rd option. Can chuck him in the ruck if needed or use Tom or Sam.

Disagree with some of that, half forward and half back are often the quickest part of the ground. If you're defending well the ground shrinks up in to lots of stoppages and little space on the wing. Selwood is playing wing for the Cats. Isaac Smith is spending a lot of time at half forward to get in to more space for the Hawks. For the quarter and a bit that we defended reasonably well Jones and Lewis weren't caught out for pace all that often. As soon as the forwards and mids dropped off they were torched, but so were our slow half backs. The thing I do agree with you on is don't play him if he can't play HB. I don't think he can, not alongside Josh Wagner and without a lot of pace with the other defenders. I think we can have 1 slower wing and still be a decent side: Jones or Lewis. And one slower half back: Lewis or Josh Wagner. If that player moves to the right spaces and gets a lot of uncontested ball then they are useful without speed. And even then just as much of the mistake was playing Lewis without a warm up in the VFL. There was no chance for him to get some touch and prove he can bend down and get the ball, chase opponents and go in to tackle.

Because the Saints half forwards - Kent, Parker, Long, Lonie all would've killed Lewis at half back and the backline - which was already slow with one plodding flanker in Josh Wagner - did the job against the Swans. The plan was he'd mostly be on Sinclair or Newnes on the wing, less speedy and more running accumulators. As long as we provided good forward pressure he only had to run with them not sprint with them. Lewis and Jones were to run hard backwards and provide the backs with numbers and easy outlet options, then we'd play tempo footy. Stretch and Jones both did that against the Swans and Lewis only had to do similar to Stretch with better kicking (theoretically). Clearly it failed, mainly because the MCG is far bigger and the Saints far quicker than the Swans, but if he played at half back in place of (?J Wagner ?Hibberd ?Fritsch) he still would've been found wanting speed and agility against the Saints quick forwards. Unless the forward and midfield pressure is top shelf and he has a slow and harmless opponent he's going to struggle.

Chad Wingard looks is awful shape and is only just going for the Hawks. Rockliff and others didn't do much for Port last year. Stringer took half a season to get going at the Dons. Point is it's not always easy to get senior players from other sides and have them up and running. Anyone who's an NFL fan will know that free agents are often available for a reason and it's the same in the AFL when it comes to trading players. I'll maintain that May was stiff to be suspended, which meant he missed round 1 and then was underdone in round 2. We stuff that up. And yeah a lot feeds back to his preseason conditioning, but at some stage you can't put it all on him.

Watching his game against the Under 18 kids I'd say he's currently behind Stretch, Lockhart, Garlett, Tim Smith and probably Sparrow (who didn't play against the kids), maybe even Chandler. Add in changes with taller players - Keilty, Oscar - and there's 7 or more in line to come in ahead of him. Things are bad - we almost have to bring Oscar back in, we'll have to stick with Jones, the forward line is a mess. But not so bad that we need ANB back.

Baker is a long way off it based on today. Stretch isn't much good but at least he runs hard and generally to decent spots.

I'd say serviceable not brilliant for Hore today. He's still off the pace when it comes to using the ball. Instead of taking the easy first option he puts himself at risk of turning it over and then often telegraphs his decision. The little stutter steps then loop on his kicks in uncontested situations aren't helpful at all. Killed a few contests and is a nice interceptor when given the chance but I was hoping for more attacking drive and better defensive ability on the deck, he's very easy to get around.

Back to the 2's but I"ll stick with him long term. Has the smarts and the vision, just needs to be playing in a side that isn't a complete mess. A little worrying that in year 1 he'd throw himself at the contest and get to a lot of good spots and this year he's all at sea but that happens some times.

Out: Jetta (inj), T Mc (?inj), Weideman, Lewis, C. Wagner, Spargo In: Stretch, Keilty, T Smith, Sparrow, Lockhart, Garlett (shudders) FB: Hore Hibberd C. Wagner HB: Brayshaw Frost Salem C: Lockhart Viney Stretch HF: Petracca Keilty Melksham FF: T. Smith Preuss Garlett Foll: Gawn Oliver Harmes Int: Jones, Sparrow, Fritsch, Hunt Badly need some fresh legs. Try Gus at half back, he's getting exploited in the midfield anyway. Fresh runners through the middle. Try something different up forward. Keilty to hit the packs, Tim Smith as the 3rd tall who gives more at ground level than most in our side.

If I were Simon Goodwin/Josh Mahoney/Gary Pert or Glenn Bartlett it would be clean out your locker on Monday, thanks for the 2 years and good luck in the media. Bruise free, treacle slow, mentally soft and physically weak players don't get to go around talking up their leadership and importance, not if I had anything to say about it.

Whilst not exactly good I thought in the periods of the game where the midfield and forward line gave the backline any kind of up the ground pressure they did pretty well. The first half really consisted of decent backline play for large chunks with awful midfield pressure at times creating easy St Kilda goals. The 3rd quarter when we played a loose man behind the ball was probably worse than the first half.

The Preuss lacerated Jye Caldwell's kidney last year in the same fixture. I would've thought it would make more sense to distribute each of these kids in to different VFL games so they could play as the 22nd/23rd men in flanker type roles that kept them away from the hot stuff, but this is a good test for them.