DeeSpencer

This is like when Saty wanted to ban people reproducing his training photos on here. If it's public it's public, Jones would know that. As long as there's no inappropriate posts about his family there's really no issue. I've been as critical of Jones as anyone recently but I thought it was great to see him enjoying time with his family, no better way to get his mind off footy to refresh before a big preseason.

He's not a strong key forward though, he's tall but plays like a running mid sized player. Cameron and Himmelberg get the key defenders and more often than not he's released to play on a flanker or given space by an intercept player. I think Fritsch and Melksham offer more in that 3rd tall role and if you start asking Finlayson to be something that doesn't suit his game he'd get found out.

Yes: Daniels - excellent small forward Sproule - if he's very cheap he's a depth key forward option Maybe: Langdon - I like him as a pressure forward but injuries have been a concern Cumming - nice back flank prospect Hately - he's solid but unspectacular, unsure of his best position, probably half back O'Halloran - haven't seen any of him this year, thought he was a good but not great draft prospect, like him more than Hately because he's a more natural outside runner I think Perryman - he's ok and versatile but lacks pace, skills haven't been as good at AFL level as the pre draft buzz No: Finlayson - think we have similar and better players in Melksham and Fritsch Caldwell and Hill - Giants won't trade these guys, big parts of their future Bonar - he's already what we have a surplus of - big body mids/forward without pace/fitness/skill Briggs/Idun - young talls the Giants won't want to give up Shipley/Buckley - fringe players

What numbers? A slight dip in uncontested possessions, hardly a surprise given the team couldn't move the ball nearly as well this year as last. AFL players to average 20 disposals, 10 contested possessions and 1 goal a game this year: Dangerfield and Gray. Petracca was next best. That's rare company. His disposal efficiency improved - in particular his field kicking was far sharper. His goal kicking got better after an awful start and he might be working towards a long term fix. He doubled his inside 50 tackles. His score involvements only dipped from 6.7 to 6 which is actually a great achievement given how much the rest of the sides score involvements dropped off. There's plenty of stats to back up his improvement as well as just watching the games.

Current fit AFL quality wingmen: 0 Assuming Vanders and KK aren't going anywhere we still have Stretch, JKH and C Wagner as expendable players if we sign better options.

The key to answer that question is first determining what Jones' position is. I think it's safe to say it's not the wing and we've got more than enough on ball options. If it's half back then we don't have a lot of great options after Salem but we could use Harmes there as well as Hibberd or Hore as far better defenders. If it's half forward then it's another list of hardly inspiring players but if we have 2 talls, Melksham, Fritsch and a crumber then it's out of Lockhart, Hunt (if not traded), C Wagner, Hannan, J Smith, ANB etc plus any recruits or kids who come on. It's not that these guys will be better over all footballers than Jones but they almost certainly will be quicker, better defensively (at either end of the ground) and more suited to the role. Jones is going to have to be smarter and add value to the team with experience. A full preseason gives him a chance at fresh legs and training in a certain role. The concern is I'm only guessing whether I think forward or back makes more sense.

With a preseason I full expect Viney to bounce back to better form and it's time to get Petracca in to the midfield, he should be a mid/forward not the other way around. There's enough minutes and match ups to work with all of Viney, Oliver, Petracca, Brayshaw and Harmes playing through the centre square. One week you might use Harmes at half back, another it might be Petracca forward or a heavy rotation of Oliver/Viney/Brayshaw through the forward line but it can all be done. Trade for Langdon and that's one wing sorted, then it's a matter of seeing how the list shapes up for the other wing.

Trading for fringe players from top sides is always fraught but I think Butler's a decent upgrade over what we have because what we have is stuff all: Chandler - 1 game Bedford - a fair way off it Lockhart - has a bit more ball winning and grunt than Butler but doesn't hit the scoreboard or rack up big tackle numbers Spargo - really appears more as an up the ground player than a crumber or tackling player, another who should compete for the ANB role C Wagner - has very little forward craft, another who's more use up the ground Hannan - will his body hold up? Does he still have the pace to threaten defenders? Hunt - might be traded and whilst a somewhat decent forward option with good pace and some overhead ability his tackling pressure is poor On the basis that he has some forward instincts and tackle pressure Butler has those guys covered. But he has to be healthy himself and he might only be fringe or in the side until we find a long term solution. Price is certainly the stickler.

up a yes

Disagree. Key forwards rarely win finals. It's great when they do but it doesn't happen all that often these days. Nick Riewoldt was a champion for years on end, but finished with 41 goals in 17 finals. He rarely dominated a final and certainly not a grand final. 69 goals in 24 finals looks great for Buddy but he kicked 7 in his first final and 8 against a hapless Dogs backline the year after, take those 2 out and he's 54 in 22. In the big finals he's mostly been well held especially since the rise in zone defending in the 10's. Tom McDonald was absolutely the main key forward last year, with or without Hogan. 53 goals in 20 games and plenty of marks. He's not in the top 6 key forwards but he's not far off if he gets back to 2018 form. He'd be the best key forward for Collingwood, Brisbane, the Dogs, Essendon so at least 4 of the finalists. Surely there's still belief he can get back to 2018 form? Jury is out on Weideman and if there's a chance to upgrade from him that's a good idea but we've got a heap of gaps to fill. A desperation ploy at a replacement now (and who?) doesn't make sense. Bringing in competition for his spot and depth is absolutely important but not with a wild swing. De Goey is the Pies full forward and Stephenson is their plan B. Charlie Cameron is the Lions full forward. Dusty still does stints at full forward for the Tigers. We need a 40+ goal kicker no matter the size. And we need small forwards because the cupboard is incredibly bare right now. It's a vital position because they are the front line of defensive pressure that creates turnovers and turnovers lead to scores. I wouldn't make an aggressive trade move for a small unless they are a Charlie Cameron 40+ goal type but I'd absolutely look to trade for someone like Dan Butler and to keep drafting more options. I look at the Eagles adding Liam Ryan and Willie Rioli and suddenly going from fringe finals side to premiers as well as the Tigers turn around in 2017 with their smalls creating so much pressure. Slow, poor overhead, creative/unskilled midfielders up forward doesn't get the job done.

I get the desire to bring in good people from successful place but what experience does Roughead have in list management? I wouldn't be too upset about this one. If I were in charge I'd be spending the list management budget on some smart analytics people to get ahead of the curve as well as experienced recruiters. Mesh the old school with some new school.

A 2 year chase of Ed Langdon is probably a fairly big sign the club wants better wingman. As was using Dom Tyson, Lewis and then Jones in the role just as Brisbane have with Mitch Robinson. And getting KK. It's easy to see that as not respecting the position by using not typical outside players but I get the feeling Goodwin has always wanted smart players and good stoppage players on the wing as much as looking at the negatives of lack of pace and skill. Tyson and Jones weren't great fits on the wing in many ways but we were strong at stoppages, they worked back hard to help the backline and they pushed forward to close outlets. All the things Mitch talked about.

I think so too and I was close to listing him as part of the side but at this stage he probably has to get his tank up and be more consistent both with the ball and defensively to lock down a half forward spot. There's certainly plenty to like with his hardness, speed and smarts around the packs.

FB: Jetta May Frost HB: Salem Lever ###### C; Langdon Oliver ##### HF: Melksham T Mc ##### FF: Fritsch Weid/Petty #### Foll: Gawn Petracca Viney Int: Brayshaw Harmes and any of the rest of our depth players. To bounce back hard I really think we need to fill 5 spots, with Langdon filling one. The Geelong team we beat in the finals last year added 5 new players to their line up and went from elimination finals to top of the ladder: Rohan - trade Dahlhaus - free agent Atkins - mature recruit Jordan Clark - first round draft pick Miers - 2nd year player All quick, all good 2 way players and a mix of skills. We've got guys like Lockhart, Baker and Chandler who could break out with good summers. We've got the chance to nail a draft pick or two. Skills will be important and especially at least one good goal kicking option but we don't have to work miracles to find the missing pieces to help the current team bounce back.

Tex still has the skills but his athleticism is shot. We're all hoping Tommy Mc gets his athleticism back and then confidence in his skills, we don't need to add a second older slower player next to him. If there is a Crows key forward to go after then I can reluctantly see the benefit of having Jenkins for a year or two so there's some genuine competition and depth.

I'd feel a lot better about him signing on if he was on 276 or 296 games. Instead he's at 286 and you just know the club will feel the pressure of getting him to 300. I thought he was ok at half back, although Salem's form started to suffer with Jones down back, possibly because Jones took the worst forward or played highest up the ground. He wasn't terrible at half forward in the last two rounds either apart from losing the game with an awful kick. But the reality is he's going to be a limited defensive player at either end and so you're relying on him doing a fair bit with smart positioning and with ball use to provide value. Positioning he can probably do, ball use I doubt. I'd probably have him train with the defenders over summer but I'm not entirely convinced of that. The one glimmer of hope is Jones had an interrupted preseason last year and maybe he can shed a few kilos and actually have the body of an outside runner instead of an inside mid. That's his best hope of playing good football

Collingwood would've had to give up good players, they nearly lost Tom Langdon last year. Richmond gave up depth and moved money around. But they both went hard at Lynch because he was a need and they are bigger and better clubs than we are, to get in the conversation we'd have to have blown them out of the water. Which with McDonald and Weideman we didn't feel like doing. We should have the money on hand for a bid at a player that makes list sense. Only then will we find out just how well they've managed the cap.

With Collingwood and Richmond offering Lynch over 1 mil a season what were we meant to do, go to massive money? That wasn't happening. We'd have to have moved 2 of McDonald/Hogan/Weideman and tipped our hand at doing that just to create an opening. Same with Coniglio, Hawthorn got rejected and Carlton got knocked back at 1.4 a season. What's the sell? We'll trade Viney and/or Brayshaw, open room for you and pay you crazy cash even though you've been banged up a fair bit in your career? There's no point being North Melbourne and getting a reputation for failed trade attempts. If Brad Hill was currently a free agent I'd expect we'd have a big offer on the table. If Josh Kelly opts out of his contract and becomes a free agent at the end of 2021 we should have a deal on the table - assuming the list stays the same. Whitfield etc etc.

Read the thread title. I assumed your retort was based around thinking Lewis could coach. If it was just to imply I should be nicer because a Hawthorn player won a bunch of flags I really don't care. I'm only biased on who can and can't help us.

Same number as Martin Pike, we should get him as an assistant. Similar number to the 2 Rooke won as a player and 1 he oversaw as a development coach. Lewis was able to provide some on field instruction in his time as well as no doubt be a good sounding board for the coaches, but nothing in his on field actions or personality has looked like a future coach. And I wouldn't at all be surprised if he [censored] away any goodwill the other players had towards him by a lot of his ordinary efforts over the first 2 years and purely by playing on this year. When Sam Mitchell wanted a career in coaching he knew he had to retire from the Eagles before he overstayed his welcome as a player. By all reports Hodge is about to do the same at Brisbane this year. Lewis clearly wasn't interested in coaching when he played on this year.

Richmond gave up their best depth in Lloyd, Ellis, Miles and Stengle to get Lynch, it's only because their recruiting in Soldo, Stack, Ross and Bolton in particular was so good that they weathered injuries this year. If there was a big name free agent out there for us this year or last year I think we could've also rolled the dice on depth and have made some moves. God knows we have far too many depth players as it is. For example if Hogan was staying we could've signed him to a long term deal (the lack of long term certainly surely was a huge part of why were happy to show him out) and traded out Weideman and one of Frost/Oscar and moved on someone like Stretch, JKH etc. As far as I know we haven't messed around with front and back loading deals like the Pies have and I believe like the Tigers have too. Hogan and May on long term deals - and McDonald, Brayshaw etc would've given us more flexibility. We might be the best in the business but I do think there's competency

I'm not convinced he's all that quick or skilled, and I think his best footy has actually come as a back pocket. He'd make a nice successor to Jetta but I don't think that role will be a huge priority. Reports said Brisbane were interested, I'd imagine he'd make a very hand small defender for them.

Imagine the lesson plan: 1. The overhead blind throw handball to avoid a tackler 2. Falling over in contested situations 3. Punching someone and other free kicks when frustrated and losing 4. Sagging behind play to receive cheap disposals on the way out 5. Media relations and PR to avoid media scrutiny 6. Hair replacement options 7. Maintenance of rugs 8. Contract law and refusing to retire

When we get some key forwards back in the side we'll have to get Fritsch up the ground at times. The combination of 2 tall forwards, Melksham, Petracca and Fritsch is too many attacking players without enough defensive pressure and tackling. It's not a bad thing, we might finally have some versatility and options for the coaches to work with.

The issue being Amon's going to take a decent contract especially if another Melbourne side along with Port have a contract for him. My guess is the Hawks might be keen if they aren't getting Coniglio and Hill is off to the Saints. And Port are going to want a good pick to. The idea that he's available for peanuts is wrong.