The Chazz

Simma, Clark IS a key forward. I know you don't believe it, and you're entitled to your opinion, but think about it from the perspective... Neeld, at his job interview, put a MFC team on the board, and highlighted where the holes are on our list. In terms of rucks, it would be safe to assume that we are travelling ok with Jamar (AA ruck), Martin, Gawn, and for drastic measures we can use Robbie Campbell (rookie), Jack Fitzpatrick and Lynden Dunn. It's only after Dunn that I would consider Spencer. It was no secret that we made a play for Dawes. What's his primary role? Full forward/Centre Half Forward. We didn't get him, even after throwing big dollars at him. The very next person we are throwing those sort of dollars at is Mitch Clark. If, as you believe is right, Mitch Clark is a ruckman, why on earth would we be offering him a similar contract to what we offered a full forward/chf? Is there going to be any stage that you will think, and don't worry - you're not on your own, that maybe, just maybe Rawlings (who was an assistant coach for him for the past 2 years, Neeld (who is our head coach and has been given a licence (within reason) to target the exact type of player he wants), that these blokes actually know a bit more about M Clark's strengths than you do? I don't mean to sound like a smart ass, but I think it's pretty clear what role they think Clark is best at playing, and as a result, are wanting him to fill that role in our team. They WON'T be offering those sort of terms to a player that isn't the right man for the job.

Myles Sewell from North Ballarat. 2 club b&f's in the last 3 years (inlcuding 1 in their premiership year, as well as this season), won the 2009 VFL b&f, named in the VFL team of the year for the past 3 seasons (at least), is 23 years old, 188cm, 80kg.

More than happy to treat him as a forward Jordie, becuase that's where he will play his best footy, especially if he were in a team, like Melbourne, where he isn't needed to play 1st or 2nd ruck. I have no doubt as a full forward, he has the capacity to kick 40+ a season. Add Jurrah's standard 30+, and I'd like to think Watts' 25+ from now on, we are starting to get a decent forward line. He is more value to us kicking 40 a season as Full Forward (which I have no doubt he can), than he would be playing 1st ruck.

When was the last time Jamar, an AA rukman, kick 30+ in a season?

Sorry mate - was Oucher driving it. Apologies.

You started this rot with wanting to trade Martin. Touche.

In 2009 when he was basically the only ruckman that Brisbane had. Played a great season and nearly made AA. Some would say that 2009 was his break-out year, as prior to that he had Brown and Bradshaw to compete against for a forward role. In 2011* he won the Lions goal kicking, not that much of a big deal I admit, when he finally got the chance to be one of the main targets up forward. Plus, he missed about 6 games this year due to injury I believe. Regardless of where he plays next season, I believe he has developed into a very handy Full Forward, and if it happened to be at Melbourne, would be given the opportunity to concentrate on that one position as Jamar is our Number 1 ruck. We share different opinions, I can't speak for you, but I watch a lot of Brisbane games, with a lot of time watching Clark in particular. At the end of 2008 he was talked out of giving the game up (this is from his own mouth), so I have watched him closely ever since. He is a Full Forward that can ruck. He is not a ruckman who can play forward. Edit - He won the goal kicking in 2011, not 2010. In 2010 he had to play ruck again as Charman was injured for the year. His best game for the season was when he played forward and kicked 5 goals.

No problems, but I stand by the 2nd part of my sentence. Just listen to see what Brisbane want for him. Offer him Pick 12, because they have given every indication that a pick that high would be sufficient. If they reject it, then we need to look at the sweetener. As Jordie Tackles stated, Spencer is a Qld boy, and would be a better trade for us if he wasn't on our list.

Simma - that year he played ruck was because the Lions had no-one else standing and he had to do it. Believe me, he's a better full forward than ruckman.

Haven't said that at all mate, I rate Clark, but I think you are overating what you think it will cost us. Freo offered Pick 16, Lions rejected it and said they wanted a lower pick. I'd offer pick 12 because from what I read in to the reports, it would get the deal done. This would give Brisbane 2 picks inside the top 12, and when you think about how much GWS are raping this draft, that's not a bad result for Bris. Pick 12 in any year is a very handy pick.

Oucher, if we offer a compo pick, or pick 12 for that matter, don't you consider that as giving something good? It appears that the Lions want a first round pick, and at the moment, we have one that easily trumps Freo's, so why on earth would we want to throw in a player as a sweetener, especially if we don't need to, and if so, why would we throw in Martin, who has just signed a 2 year extension??? I would rather give them a first rounder than give Stef Martin and a 2nd rounder. If people are saying that Stef and a first rounder may be required, you are seriously paying overs.

Poor them (subtitle: suck sh!t).

I'm sure you have posted it before RP, but who would your 2012 captain be?

Interesting to see Emma Quayle's tweet about the Adelaide/Crouch paperwork not being lodged yet. As we stand, they have 19 minutes to get it in. Surely they wont miss the boat?

I wonder how much knowledge Rawlings has of the whole situation. As someone posted earlier, maybe Clark is using the "go home factor" as a smoke screen for other issues he has with the Club. Would we be wasting our time if Rawlings knew for a fact that he wants to go back to WA? Maybe if we are trying to push Freo's offer up a bit (maybe we are sh!tty with them for landing Ross Lyon in an unethical way which gave us no chance of getting him??!!). I love conspiracy theories!

I think that's a loss for the Lions.

Hey, don't forget they have listed players from season 2011. There are about 6 or so that are aged between 22-25, plus the couple of 30+ blokes they have picked up. I'm not saying that they will win games in 2012, I sincerely hope they lose every game, but they haven't put all their eggs in the one basket with this years draft. In 3-4 years, they will have a very balanced list (age-wise).

This is the misperception. We don't need someone to split packs, we need a strong contested mark who can make a contest and bring the ball to the ground. Countless times Martin has done this up forward, it's just our crumbers let us down. If we got Clark for example, I can easily see Martin play a similar role to Adam Goodes. Goodes is 4cm shorter I think, but their weight is very close to the same, and with another year/preseason under his belt, as well as this new training regime, I think Martin's endurance can see him play all over the ground. If we don't get Clark, I'm happy with him being that Full Forward that we need.

I'll be one of about 3 people on here that will still have my membership in one piece should Green be captain in 2012. Well done Captain Brad, showed leadership by agreeing to a 1 year deal, knowing that it could be his last year of football, even though he probably thinks he has 3 left in him.

I see Martin as a Big Bodied Forward. Barry Prendegast sees him as one too. Unfortunately to date, he hasn't had 6 or 7 consecutive games in the position to prove one way or another. I would've thought giving one of our compo picks for Clark would've been sufficient. Brisbane have not indicated that they want a player in return, and are happy to receive a decent 1st round pick.

I don't know exactly what they have M Clark ear-marked for, but from an uneducated perspective, we have been told by the club that we would like a KPF, Clark is such player (I believe he is a far better KPF than ruckman - I watch him very closely as he is a friend of a friend), we have expressed an interest, so reading between the lines, perhaps that KPF hole that we have might be what we are aiming for with Clark. I'm assuming you are referring to Robbie Campbell? We recruited him, on the rookie list, as more of a development coach for our younger talls, not to fill that void that we wanted Hale to do.

Is 2 x 1st round picks too much to give for a player who will be the best player on our list? NO, especially if we were going to give the same for O'Meara/Crouch. We will get a solid 5 years out of him, e-e-easy. Just read that the VL changes don't come in until 2013. If so, we would need to backload the ass off Goddard's contract.

I'm amazed at the questions raised about getting rid of MArtin, as well as B59's question about what we would have in mind for Clark (or Martin - not sure which player you were asking about). I have said many times about looking at the premiership teams of the past 2 decades, and in particulr, how many big guys they have in the ruck-forward division. I laugh, the majority on here are crying out for a big bodied forward, then as soon as one gets mentioned, we look at getting rid of one of our other big bodied rucks/forwards. Definitely calls for this one ---->

Going to throw this one out there (have psoted similar on the "Changes to Veteran List" thread)... Reported today that GWS are going to make a serious play for Goddard next year. You would think the money they will offer him will leave St Kilda with no option than to let him go. My proposal: * Offer St Kilda our 2 compo picks this trade week for Goddard. If he were to go to GWS next year, that's all they'd be getting. By getting those kinds of picks now, they can activate them in next years super draft, meaning they will have to option of 3 first round picks next year, rather than just the 1. * If changes to the Veteran List are correct, and we can put Jamar on the VL for 2012, we would have to have serious $$$ to offer him. * Could sell it to the Saints by saying that they will be shafted next year by GWS, which they have happily done to the greater AFL community, so here's a chance for the Vic clubs to return the facvour by taking their big fish away from them. Probably wont happen, but thougts?

You're on fire Cowboy! Loving it! Imagine Juice on our VL, his salary as it stands would be about $42k per year, so putting him on the VL wont really free up any salary cap room! If Jamar can be put on the VL, I'd seriously make a play for Goddard....NOW!!! We give St Kilda our 2 compo picks (that's all they will receive for Goddard if he goes to GWS anyway), which they can activate next year. Means they can have an extra 2 first round picks in next year's "super draft", rather than having to wait until 2013 when they can use their compo picks (assuming Goddard leaves at the end of next season). It frees up their salary cap issues immediately, without having to lose other players/take pay cuts. Depends on how pi$$ed they are with us for poaching Misson, but surely we can approach it from the angle of "GWS are screwing every Club in the leauge, so here's our chance to screw them".