Adam The God

Chris Judd, Jack Ziebell and Dylan Shiel all went to Caulfield Grammar. Wouldn't call any of them soft. Sheedy has been out of touch for the best part of a decade. I'm glad he didn't coach Melbourne. Roos via Bailey and Neeld was a much better choice.

And continued development. They still need to continue to rectify areas of their game that require strengthening, otherwise it's thw Cameron Schwab way to build a football team.

Which is brilliant, because he's had a lot of misses with those top picks. Most of those guys have then landed at Carlton. His strike rate is pretty ordinary given the amount he had to work with. If his strike rate is anywhere near his GWS time at Carlton, they'll be in big trouble. Let's hope so. The biggest mistake made by multiple clubs recently is the boys club mentality that saw Hird, Buckley, Voss, Leppitsch and Ratten all land coaching gigs. It's about living off past glories, instead of living in the present and picking the best candidate. There's a bit of that with SOS. Oh, he's a recruiter somewhere? Well, we better get him back. Naturally, we had quite a bit of that under Schwab too. Thankfully, PJ rarely seems to buy into that.

And getting a year into a young KPF talent like Weideman...

Let's not mention Vandenberg. He's in the same basket as Bugg, but even more untidy. He is probably the worst handballer for an AFL player I have ever seen. His kicking leaves a bit to be desired too. I think you'll see Jones, Viney, Oliver and Tyson rotating in and out of the centre square as that's what the modern game demands. Flexibility and unpredictability. As we saw at the back end of the season, Brayshaw was also playing key midfield minutes, he would just rotate with one of the aforementioned guys. As did Petracca. And on the outside, we have Stretch, Hunt, Melksham and M Jones. It's not good enough, I agree, especially if you compare it with GWS' outside mids, but if you can get players who bring their team mates (whatever position they're playing) into the game, they're the guys I want in the midfield. Oliver is definitely that type of player. So is Tom Mitchell. Their hands are brilliant.

That's why communication is vital and was clearly one of Roos' strengths. You make sure the second tier mids understand why these guys are coming in to compete for their spot. It's an experience thing and it's something they simply can't compete with. I'd have him ahead of Bugg, Trengove, Kennedy, ANB and probably Harmes to be honest. He can hit a target. Bugg, Harmes and even Kennedy aren't great in this area. For list balance sake, I'm sure we'll be able to find a place for him.

It's highly likely that if given the chance, both players would nominate Hawthorn, but Hawthorn won't have the picks to get both deals done. In which case, I'm hoping we can step in and snap up Mitchell.

Yeah, I think those three you've mentioned all failed to get on the park regularly and haven't cemented best 22 spots as a result. I think the game has simply passed Dawes by, but given we gave up a first rounder for him, it has cost us in the end. Who knows with Melksham? I really didn't rate him at Essendon, I found him laughable in fact, but I'm just hoping a new environment can improve his footy. Kennedy may still make it, but I don't hold out much hope and Bugg will never be more than a fringer. And if someone with his disposal deficiencies is best 22 in 2017-2018, we're in trouble.

Add Jack to that list of guys who isn't that quick either. I'd say he's average. And this has become an interesting debate across 2016. Do we need outside pace or backs more? Now that our defence seems a lot more settled, I think the debate must change to is it outside pace we need or more inside ball-winning ability? Obviously, we need both, but what's the priority? I think inside ball winners who can bring others (read - outside players) into the game.

I don't think this is true. GWS are quick, but particularly off half back with Scully, Kelly, Wilson and Williams. Shiel is quickish and Coniglio isn't slow, but it's on the outside that they're fast. And very few of their outside mids play on the inside, starting in the centre square. Neither should Hunt. Also, as per my post above, the Hawthorn midfield isn't quick. Their outside mids are though. And outside mids play off half back and the wings. We need more of these extractors that win the contested possession consistently and give off to these quicker outside types.

If you look at the experienced heads GWS have landed in Shaw and Griffen, neither I would say were A graders, probably cusp B graders, so whilst A grade leaders would be great, I'd settle for B graders at this stage.

This is insightful and still rings true, despite the cringy bolded part. So who are the updated Melbourne midfield prospects? Viney, Tyson, Jones, Vince, Brayshaw, Oliver? Flash forward 18 months when we're hopefully going to be challenging, Vince and Jones will be nearing the end, which leaves us with Viney, Tyson, Brayshaw and Oliver. Petracca might be floating through the midfield too. That would have competed for a flag (in the right age demographic) in the late 2000s/early 2010s, but the GWS juggernaut has changed the game and midfield depth and quality is far deeper than even 2011, with multiple midfield options required now, rather than just the five. This is why I've been saying all year that I think we're still at least another midfielder or two, away from being able to compete with GWS. Let's look at GWS' midfield: Coniglio, Shiel, Ward, Greene, Griffen, Scully and Hopper. And that's not including their gun half backs in Kelly, Whitfield, Wilson, Williams and Kennedy. The other thing worth noting about those above 5 midfields in retrospect, is the two midfields that have had prolonged success contained a similar element. Both Geelong and Hawthorn were made up of physical, hard-edged players, with a mixture of x-factor and skill. And looking at the midfields of the Saints and the Bulldogs, it's pretty clear why they never won a flag. Jones, Ray and Higgins were never in the same calibre as Lewis or Corey. So, what does this mean? We need to go hard for another mid this year and next year. I hope we're still into Mitchell and Prestia. I think we need to land one of them.

I agree with all that, but GWS proves we're only 2-3 good experienced players (with preferably premiership success) off fixing the problem. Over a 2-3 year period that's doable if we nail our trades.

What's strange about this mindset is that either clubs have underestimated GWS, or they overrate their own lists, or they're simply happy building middle of the road lists in the hope that one day they might be able to pinch a flag off GWS if the aforementioned club stumbles. I've been predicting a GWS flag in 2016 for quite a few months now and they're well on their way. Absolutely no way we've sorted out our experience. The single biggest issue that could prevent us from winning a flag, IMO. We must get decent senior players in ASAP. When you compare the return for us of premiership players in Dawes and Lumumba with Shaw, Mumford and Steve Johnson, they're poles apart. And you cannot deny GWS were able to get these quality ex-premiership players in because they had the near unlimited cap room and picks to satisfy (except perhaps for Steve Johnson). We're starting from a long way back. I hope GWS' talent continues to get spread around the competition (preferably heading to the MFC, but we can't have it all) and slowly things will even themselves out - see Treloar's trade last year. I just hope these flogs don't all end up at the big Melbourne clubs in Hawthorn, Essendon, Carlton and Collingwood. And the thrashings have stopped for the most part, although it seems laughable to state it, given our final match saw a 111 point thrashing. This is a good post and I think one of the major reasons why we're still a bit behind is that we have to get much better at trading. IMO with the exception of Vince, Cross, Tyson, Frost (you could argue Pedersen too), our trading over the last few years has been a fail. Michie, Lumumba, Kennedy, Riley, Newton, Bugg and going back even pre-Roos to Dawes, Byrnes, Gillies, Rodan (not to mention Clark). There are too many misses there and too many guys who have failed to show that they're anything more than a fringer. We have very little margin for error with these guys and really need 2 or 3 more reasonable experienced leaders injected into our side over the next 2-3 years if we're going to continue upwards. Without these guys, we're in trouble.

I'd want Neale and their first rounder as a minimum. Fyfe's break won't enable him to be the same player and will always have the propensity to shatter the bone again. A massive risk and one that I wouldn't want to make for Jesse.

Mitchell was the one that tried to lift them in the second quarter, but didn't have enough help. He's a very good player and he'd be a brilliant addition to our young midfield.

Yeah, I agree, but nothing in comparison to GWS' year in 2016. Very different stages.

No, just that I've noticed it a bit from multiple posters. It takes a lot of time for the mods (having been one myself earlier in my younger years) and really, it's simple to just read past them.

Hang on, WYL. GWS are approximately 2-3 seasons ahead of us in development. Most of their guys are approaching 100 games. They're in the perfect age bracket. Most of our guys are approaching 40 games. It's okay to demand high standards, but it's also important to be realistic.

Gee, that was a poor decision from Parker.

It's a surprisingly open final. I don't remember so much uncontested footy and paddocks of space in a final.

And 'Over The Fence', there was more to come?

Have no idea if we're any chance anymore, but Mitchell would still be high on my shopping list.

Poor old mods. Seriously. A thankless task and yet a number of people contribute to the mess and then throw their hands up and say 'where are the moderators'.

Smith is a gun, but turns 29 at the end of this year. How long does he have left?