Adam The God

The Bont is now elite IMO.

I think what will propel us up the ladder sooner than was anticipated is if we can develop the Hannan types into B graders. As long as our Hogan's, Oliver's, Petracca's and Brayshaw's continue to improve every couple of games and begin to show consistency, the lower picks like Hunt and Hannan fill the holes we'd otherwise have in our bottom six. Most people use the bottom 6 of a best 22 to decide the fate of a football team. Our current interchangable bottom 6 would be: ANB/Kent, Hannan/Kennedy/JKH, Frost/Smith/Garland, Weideman/Pedersen, Bugg/Vandenberg and White. Now if ANB can provide Kent with decent competition for that half forward role our forwardline is immediately improved and harder to match up on. If Hannan develops into a good player and JKH can show us something to put pressure on Hannan, that's another string for our forwardline. If Frost and Smith get a good run at the third defender role without injuries, our defence will look a lot stronger. If Weideman continues to develop and starts to clunk some of those marks, Hogan, Watts and Weideman are a tall and mobile set of key forwards who could get in top of most defences. So looking at the remaining guys from above, it means our bottom 3 or 4, particularly with injuries are still a worry. But with another trade/draft season or two, those holes should be filled. If we can make our 2017 picks count and get lucky with a talented FA sometime in the next two years, we'll be superbly positioned in 2018-2019 to make an assault on the flag. As PD says, Kelly would be the perfect addition to our midfield, although I worry about his hardness. I'd like to see how Dion Johnstone develops, because he could also be the answer to our small forward problems. But looking through this bottom 6 shows me that we really have assembled an exciting list.

I'm excited by Petracca's potential and Stringer may not be elite, but as he showed last night he's a gamebreaker. If Petracca gets to his level, we've got a good player on our hands. Petracca's ceiling is marginally higher, because his skills are better than Stringer's for mine. Having said that, Oliver is comfortably ahead at this stage.

Not many of those. Tommy Mac does, but most KPDs aren't great set up players. They mostly just defend brilliantly. Rance is a decent set up player, but I take your comment to infer you want a Rance with Suckling-like disposal. Pretty damn rare. I think we'd be stoked to get a Frawley equivalent, which is around where we selected Frawley anyway. But I reckon judging by Goody's comments last year, we'd prefer the extra quality mid and would look to develop role players for our defensive zone as plug and plays (ie Frost and McDonald type athletes).

Yep, I'm with you. We're still an A grader or two down in the midfield.

I'll tell you what I am excited for. Jason Taylor getting another shot at a first rounder at the end of this year. It'd be fascinating to know what the FD rates as our biggest list weakness. I'm not saying we'd recruit on a needs basis. I think you pick the best player and that's been our motto under Taylor and co, but it's an interesting discussion. In terms of the 2017 draft, I read somewhere on Demonland the other day that there are apparently quality talls this year. I'd love us to pick up another midfield bull, but wouldn't say no to another KPB either.

I just can't see them being lazy. I just don't think SOS is a talent scout.

Right. Well, each to their own. Their midfield is good, but nowhere near as good as it was with him in it. He was worth 2 first rounders too.

IMO Greene's never been their best mid. He's played his best footy as a forward. He butchered it as a midfielder. I'll admit that Shiel v Treloar is a closer thing, but I'd lean towards Treloar. And as for Cognilio, his break out season was last year after Treloar had left. I'm not sure why people are running to defend SOS. Surely, all you need to do is look at the first three picks in the 2012 draft? He's been an unmitigated disaster as a recruiter and I only hope that the Carlton FD keep defending him like some on here do. Carlton need to get just about every pick right if they're going to get themselves off the bottom of the ladder, otherwise they're in big trouble. If GWS didn't have the unrivaled access to draft concessions that they did have, he'd have flunked out there and it would have been a lot more obvious. Can you imagine if Jason Taylor had picked Whitfield, O'Rourke and Plowman at 1, 2, 3? He would never work again, unless it was at Carlton - see Barry Prendergast as Opposition Analyst.

IMO it's a little bit of all the parts that makes the vehicle move forward.

If that's the case, how do you explain GWS losing their best mid in Treloar? Is that a sign of poor list management?

Yep, good point, mate. So basically, SOS is still an ordinary recruiter whose terrible record flies under the radar a bit.

Hang on though, 55. Gold Coast had a good list but a putrid culture. Now O'Meara, Bennell and Prestia have left, they look ordinary.

Surely this thread should be called Clearance Oliver?

I think most of us picked this up too, except the bloody commentators or any other media pundits this week. It really was one of the classiest things I've seen from a Melbourne player in a long, long time.

List cloggers, mate.

Not sad at all. He's Carlton's coach and as a result I hope he fails, but stays at the helm for as long as possible.

From the outside looking in, it looks like the work of a boy's club and sometimes they work, sometimes they don't. It didn't work at Melbourne and it's not working at Carlton. Unless things change there pretty quickly, they'll be looking for a new coach as early as next year.

The same way SOS over at Carlton keeps getting it wrong over and over again at the draft/trade table. He's not very good at his job. When you have key decision makers who are not very good at their job, other poor key decision makers are employed and it's a self-perpetuating cycle. The MFC was a cesspit, but time to move on.

What "embarrassing circumstances"? He was headhunted by us and left Collingwood early because of it. I'd be a bit careful about this type of speculation.

If Carlton get a priority pick I will [censored] on McLachlan's desk. What a joke that would be. Particularly, given we were denied when we were potentially the worst team to ever play the game. Carlton have had more number one draft picks than any other team in the modern era, so it would be an absolute disgrace. I love the Carlton arrogance though. Still one of my most hated clubs. Love that they haven't won a flag for 22 years and have been almost as bad as us over a 15 year period.

IMO Oliver's biggest issue last year was his tank. He couldn't run out games. If he can run out four quarters, even three and a half quarters regularly, he will rack up the stats. 25-30 possessions per week easily. And as you say PD, if he continues to develop his outside game, he'll have no problem hitting 30 touches weekly. The West Coast game should be his blue print for the rest of 2017. He used his feet superbly to open up play, but still got a tone of it inside as well. Hogan will be a star and what he's managed to do for a CHF is nothing short of phenomenal, but Oliver has walked straight in (similar to Ollie Wines really) and had a major impact on the inside. That's why I have Clarry's ceiling as higher than Jesse's, but I want both of them in my team. They're both match winners. It's important to note that the biggest difference between the ceiling of someone like Wines and even my favourite Cripps, is Clarry's ability by hand and in particular by foot. Both of those other guys are limited by foot. For mine Clarry is a Sam Mitchell clone.

Oliver will be right up with Cripps this year. In fact, I predict he'll surpass Cripps this season.

Hopefully one day Tyson and Viney will demand a tag, but I don't see any of those boys, with the exception of Clarry, demanding a tag at this stage. But if Tyson and Viney are free to go without a tag, we will have a very dangerous midfield. Especially, if we learn to block and work for each other. No side is going to tag two mids, but there were certainly times last year where Viney was either tagged or received heavy attention at stoppages. Oliver's rise makes us all the more unpredictable, which is terrific. This all said, I'd be chasing hard for one more A grade mid at the end of this year. Reckon we're still one short. Brayshaw, Petracca, Salem and for the next few years Lewis, Jones and Vince can all push through there, but I think we need one more to be a flag contender in a year or two.

Bookmark it, DD.