Adam The God

We should have beaten Geelong too... except they pulled the straightest goal-kicking you'll see, out of their arses. Hate both these teams.

I reckon Geelong will find it hard to miss the top 4 after today. I think they're nowhere near as good as their record suggests, but I think given their start and their wins now, they'll be able to do enough. Whereas, Hawthorn may well be competing with us for a top 8 spot. One less contender for us is better.

It's also the system the Bulldogs use, who had McCartney for a couple of years, as we have had AND Roos, and then implemented it in Beveridge's first season. I don't have a problem with the system. The groundwork has been laid correctly, I just wonder whether the younger players should be exempt from this until they find their feet. I think you have to be a little flexible with younger players, particularly, as you imply, before the system becomes wildly known and believed in as a 'Melbourne thing'. I think a lot of our players are trying to find their role and tellingly struggling. They're interestingly all midfielders too: Viney, Tyson and Brayshaw.

Don't believe in curses, but it's certainly [censored] frustrating.

Yeah, they got some easy goals, but they also kicked goals from everywhere across the arc and from distance. They've missed them from everywhere, including Hawkins missing from 15 minutes out, pretty much directly in front. Gives me the shits.

Their 2.7 this week would have been 7.2 last week or even 9.0.

I think the 'system' is you come in and play your role and the FD and the MC's expectation is even if it's not your preferred or even best position, while others are ahead of you, you play your role. It's a good idea, but I'm not sure we should be doing it with our younger blokes. I know they have to learn the system, but they also need to find their feet at AFL level. If you're not playing to their strengths, they may never find their feet.

How's Geelong's kicking at goal this week? Bloody hopeless in comparison to last week. That'd be right.

So you're suggesting, LH, that Roosy would be playing Brayshaw in the middle right now and would have played him there more, had it not been for Goody? Seems logical I suppose. What doesn't seem logical is why Goody would continue with this, despite Brayshaw clearly struggling, unless it goes back to that 'system' discussion again? Maybe Goody doesn't rate Brayshaw as highly as Viney, Petracca or Jones, who have all had more midfield minutes than Brayshaw.

My favourite one of those break aways was the intercept from the Selwood turn over down at Geelong. He burst through the middle and kicked it straight down Spencer's throat, who later goaled. One of the most exciting passages of play that year. Got a Gus and Jetta high five after that game too as one of the 12 Melbourne supporters at the ground. I'm not actually sure how far behind Jones or Viney he is as a mid. Jones has been playing large portions at half back and racking up possessions there. Viney has been down on clearances. Depending on how he goes over the next few weeks, I'd get him back in and rotating between the middle and half back. Perhaps, even against Richmond.

If that's the case, and I don't disagree, why was Gus played on flanks and pockets under Roos? Was it a case of protecting him from the crash and bash of the midfield after his injury interrupted start to 2016? If not, Gus should have been playing more midfield minutes last year. I know he had more midfield minutes towards the end of 2016, but he was still playing the majority of his footy outside of the centre square. Goody has also opted to play him off a forward flank. I don't understand it. Get him in the guts if that's where we think he'll play his best footy. Otherwise, stick him on the back flank, like his first year.

Obviously, I'd love Lynch, but he doesn't address enough needs. That might sound strange as he's one of the best forwards in the game, but we need a ruck/forward. I'd prefer his team mate Peter Wright. However, I think it's our defence that needs help sooner rather than later, not our forwardline, now that Jesse is back. I'd be targeting a KPD before a KPF/ruck.

I don't think any modern AFL team wants to carry a tagger. Still, it might be worth it next week against Richmond. He can win his own ball in the middle. He just needs to be smarter with the way he uses it.

How good is Oliver going to be when he builds that tank? Even if he rests forward for another 5% TOG at times this year.

You said we have no A graders and until we get an A grader(s) we won't get there. I was merely saying that I have no doubt Oliver will get there. Your post seemed to dismiss him by not mentioning that he is as influential as a Cripps already and has barely played 20 games. As I said somewhere else, if he keeps tracking at the rate he is, by the start of the 2018 season, he'll be one of the top 5 midfielders in the game.

I think the backwards hand pass from stoppages that we used throughout the JLT and the first four rounds, has enabled us to release players or prevent our guys being tackled. It also affords our players a few extra seconds to spot targets up the ground, rather than bombing long or blasting it directly out of congestion in stoppages. Freo may have worked us out over the weekend in that regard, but it will be interesting to see. The Bulldogs are another team that use this tactic to great effect.

And these scoring positions have been favourable for conversion too. It's not like we've been dragged out to the pockets and our forwards have had difficult set shots. We've often had very gettable shots and we've just failed to convert these easy chances. It certainly tells me we're doing a lot right, but finishing is the issue. You'd expect us to adjust the over-possessing as the season progresses and hopefully this leads to even higher scoring shot counts. I think we're still learning that efficiency is easier if you have trust in your team mates. We're trusting our team mates on the inside of the contest, but not higher up the ground as often. Once this clicks, I think we'll see less over-possessing, quicker ball movement and more scoring shots. The other thing I hope we see this year is a return to dominance in the clearances. I know that'll be tough with Gawn out, but if Oliver can do it, so can Tyson, Viney et al.

Really? You're better than this, 55. Are you frustrated as well?

Some good points in here, mate. I disagree with the too many mids theory, but agree with where those mids should be playing. Salem has had quite a few midfield minutes this year, particularly over the last two weeks. I like him starting half back and going in there for stints at the moment. He also has that flexibility of playing half forward too. Gus needs to start off half back and go in for stints in the middle. Lewis into the middle for large patches and then onto half back and the wing for the remainder. I think VDB should be played forward though, with limited stints in the midfield. Jones is good off half back and was pinging off the defensive zone beautifully in the first two rounds in particular. His game against the Saints should be his bench mark. Probably his best game for the club IMO. He's only had the one down week (injury probably hampered him too). I hope he can bounce back against the down hill skiers this week. Tyson is a pure mid and should rotate between half forward and the middle, but spend most of his time in the middle. Needs to fix that disposal and work on his defensive spread though. Viney needs to get the job done in the middle or on a wing. The way he was running on Saturday has left me doubts about his fitness. He is carrying an injury, but it's obviously not enough to keep him out of the side. I wonder if when Lewis comes back in, whether we'll rest Viney for a week, or whether we'll try and get Jack to the bye before resting him. And I love the idea of Oliver resting in the goal square or forward, ala Dusty. Oliver's is obviously not as explosive, but I'd argue just as strong around the contest and a lovely kick. If he can add goals to his game and continue tracking the way he is, he'll be one of the top 5 midfielders in the league by the start of 2018. Looking forward to seeing how Smith goes later in the season and am a Wagner fan too. Smith, Jetta, Hunt, Salem and Hibberd off half back will make us pretty dashing back there. Some good ball users there in that bunch. As I said somewhere else though, we need to sort out our KPDs. Maybe it's TMac and Frost for 2017-2018, until we can lure a decent FA or trade in a Weitering/Lever type? Get those two bookends right and playing together for the next 15-30 games, and our defence will start to look so much better. Particularly, under the direction of a Lewis.

I don't agree with all of this, but I think you've got me on board with your rating of our co-captains. Leadership is a massive problem as soon as Gawn and Lewis are out of the side. Most teams would struggle with leaders like that out, but we've still got our two co-captains going about things and failing to influence games in the way captain's should. I'm not sure we have an answer on the list at the moment. I don't think Lewis should be captain, but definitely VC. I'm not convinced in 2017 or 2018, Jones or Viney should be captain. I think Saturday was a real test of their leadership material without Max and Jordy. They failed miserably. What can be done? I was all for the co-captaincy at the start of the year, but it's clear that a combination of injury and/or form has diluted Viney's influence so prominently that he's almost a liability. His kicking is ordinary, even some tackles are failing to stick and he's not getting the clearance numbers or UPs and CPs that he managed last year. This is with even more help from guys like Oliver and Tyson sharing the load. I think Jack's ceiling is higher than his father's if he is allowed to play the game instinctively. If they're getting him to 'learn' at the moment via playing defensive roles then that's okay for the time being, but I think there needs to come a point eventually where Jack is allowed to play instinctively as he did last year. If he's not allowed this freedom, I fear he's a cusp B grader at best, when his potential could be as high as A grade.

It's sometimes a bit hard to work out what the internal KPIs are when we're not privy to them. I can't imagine they'd be thrilled with his efforts thus far, but who knows what the benchmark is.

I think it's a defensive system that requires quick ball movement, so I agree to an extent, mate. I think we have to be looking for the switch or the line-breaking run. The Freo situation was different from most weeks though. It was Sandilands we'd be kicking to if we went up the line, with no Gawn or Hogan to aim at. So it's a tough one. Either, you chip it around or you try and get it as long as possible and expect Sandilands to mark it. If he doesn't, you have to be sweating on him and other Freo players on the outside and at ground level, to ensure they don't get a clean transition happening. The only time we should be attempting short passes in our defensive 50 in a situation where we hold a slender lead with a couple of minutes to go, is if the short pass is a clear option. It's Under 9's stuff really. The equivalent of "don't kick across goal unless a clear option is available". Vince's short dinky kicks are rarely on and shouldn't be turned to when we are trying to hold onto a lead at the death - also see his dinky little kick that resulted in the shot on the siren against the Suns in 2016. I'd prefer in this situation that we bomb as long as possible and get Hannan or Hunt to jump on Sandilands' shoulders to bring the ball to the ground and swarm him from there. If he takes the mark, you set up defensively up the ground and ensure any runners don't receive a Sandilands handball - every side knows Sandilands looks for the handball at every opportunity. Vince has to know better than this dinky option and we have to plan better than this as a coaching group.

Surely, they practice for these situations and surely, they have different set ups for defending a lead or a stoppage that could result in surrendering the lead. I don't think it's good enough that we find out the hard way that a situation like this needs some correction. No [censored], Goody. At the very least, play man on man.

Wow. Just wow. A 5 on 3. Amateur hour.

Interesting and it seems Roosy is as frustrated as some on here. https://www.triplem.com.au/sport/afl/news/paul-roos-tees-off-on-jordan-lewis-and-jesse-hogan “I went there live just as a supporter yesterday,” Roos said. The lack of Jesse: “While I was watching, there’s goals that Jesse Hogan would have kicked yesterday… from a technical point of view he’s got elite endurance and he knows the game plan. “He gets up the ground really well but he can also get back inside forward 50… I probably would have thought there would have been four or five genuine opportunities that Jesse would have created.” Weideman's game: Roos said that young tall forward Sam Weideman - who copped a corkie yesterday and struggled - is a good talent but not yet capable of getting to the same level that Hogan consistently shows. “Just watching Sam play compared to Jesse, Sam’s not yet capable, with the injury as well, of getting up and back inside 50,” Roos said. “So there’s no doubt that Jesse would have generated four or five scoring shots and another four or five goals. The avoidable suspensions: ”Clearly it’s frustrating, an injury to Max Gawn is unavoidable, a suspension to Jesse Hogan and Jordan Lewis is not unavoidable. “That’s something that both players can control… it’s a big difference 3-1 rather than 2-2.” “What’s gonna come down to the eight is the injury, is the suspension, is the 13 goals 20 instead of the 20 goals 13. “They’re the things at the end of the year that are gonna make a big difference, and the last two weeks we’ve seen Melbourne should have won here but for poor kicking and the suspensions. “There’s no doubt the suspensions cost them yesterday, definitely.”