Adam The God

Yep, I dread to think what Richmond and Hawthorn will do to us the next two weeks.

I agree it's system based and almost all about our coaching. Our forwards don't lead up at the ball and we don't lower our eyes enough entering forward 50. Collingwood are showing the way a dominant midfield (which we possess too) can play control football and wipe sides off the park. I find it staggering that we still haven't worked out how to play the G or against control footy. Our aggressive press is still just as ridiculous as it was last year and must go. I love Hibbo but he's done. I don't think we've got a dumber footballer on our list. He can't win 1v1s anymore and he literally has one game: bomb it high and long. Lewis and Jones were both done last year too. The missing ingredient to this side, as has been discussed ad nauseum, is pace. We need pace off our back flanks, on our wings and in our forward half. I think we might need some fresh ideas in the coaching ranks too. Hold onto your first bloody draft pick this time because it'll be another top 5 pick. We're not getting off the foot of the ladder this year.

Game style is done. Time to change tact. We don't have the personnel or coaching nous to make chaos footy work on the most important ground in the game. 2019 is done and dusted. Start trying some things for 2020 and play man on man, throw the press out and start again. I'll back Goodwin to turn it around, but if he sticks with the game style we won't be getting off the bottom of the ladder. The forward 50 efficiency was disgraceful today.

Oscar should not have been beaten either. Is your point Oscar and Jones are both ordinary? If so, I'd agree with you. It was the ease with which he was pushed off the contest that is what's concerning.

Just watching the replay again. Gets muscled off it by Heeney and the ball slingshots back for a Sydney goal to Ronke. He'll be too slow to play forward on the 'G too.

He brought that in Round 2 and 3 as well...

I hope so. I'm one of them, but he was very good tonight. Well done, Marty.

That was bloody great. We kicked some really clutch goals tonight (Jones, Melksham, Viney and Hunt). Our intensity was really up too and we played proper 'control' style at times in the last quarter. We still try to play too quickly at times unnecessarily, but hopefully we can start to add this switch to our game. Preuss at full forward won't work very often on the 'G, because he doesn't lay any tackles and could barely move by the end of it tonight, but two nice goals from him. I thought Hore held up well, as did Frost (despite some usual brain fades), but Oscar McDonald was outmuscled so many times in the first half, Hibberd still can't win 1v1s and against a better forwardline, we're still going to struggle unless we continue to improve our defensive transition. I still think Jeff Garlett would add a bit to this forwardline, but Petracca's intensity was really good again, for a third week in a row and he's getting better with each week. Spargo was neat and handy in the first half and faded a bit (that fitness problem again) and Hunt is untidy at times, but his hand tonight was crucial in converting our inside 50 entries and applying much needed chase and defensive pace in our forwardline. Ultimately, I think he's probably a wingman or half backer, but he'll keep getting games if he continues to chase and harass like he has the last 2-3 weeks. I think our focus on defence throughout the week meant that it took us a while to play our natural game, which we started to see come through in the second half once we had laid the foundation of defence. Harmes has become a proper player. He holds his own alongside Clarry, Gus and Viney. If we can get our two-way running right, I think those four will make the best midfield in the comp. I hope we have set the standard for ourselves this week that we can build on for the next few weeks and maybe, just maybe, things can turn around. Given many of our other likely competitors for the top 8 are only sitting on 1 win, we haven't lost as much ground as we could have. And hold your horses on Jones. It's a bit like Facebook on here. You can't ever criticise him or you're sacrilegious. Nathan did kick three goals, the last of them being a really important one, however outside of those goals, the rest of his game was embarrassing. Do people actually watch the game? He was fumbly and a poor user. What's more, for a guy who's close to playing 300 games, I've never seen such a panicker. Florent's goal in the third, for example, was from a direct Jones panic turnover. But, as I say, excited to get the win and we'll see whether we can back it up next week.

Really worried about our ability to lock the ball inside our forward 50, let alone how it gets there in the first place. At least, there's not a great deal of pace in the Sydney midfield and McVeigh out is a big one given the drive he gives them. I expect Buddy to kick a minimum of 3, but it could be an 8 or 9 goal showing the way our defence have been playing in 1v1s. The season was done last week, but if we get smacked tomorrow, I fear we won't be able to get out of the bottom 4 this year.

We shouldn't have made him captain again. It was plain as day he was finished last year and yet not only did he go around again, we made him captain. I think we've got to drop him if he's not performing or there's not a role. Call it 'soreness' or whatever you like, but internally, drop him. And he never carried us for the record. He was one of the only players who took pride in his own performance. Even in those days he played selfish football, as evidenced by Roos banging on about it when he came to the club.

Fritsch is also a big problem in our back 6. He started playing sweeper off the wing and he just doesn't read the play well enough and often gets caught in no man's land. I don't think we can boil it down to one or two factors or players. I think it's coaching, forward and midfield work rate, and defenders not being able to halve contests.

I disagree. He's a KPF who's played less than 25 games. He's a beautiful set shot kick and has a nice pair of hands. I agree with the forwardline being a major weakness, but the midfield is also a weakness to our defence. It's not just the forwards role to lock the ball inside our attacking 50.

Things can change very quickly. Richmond showed that you don't need more than 4 or 5 guns and the rest, simple role players. We have built a core group of guns (Gawn, Oliver, Brayshaw, Viney, Lever, May and Harmes, with an emerging KPF in Weideman) and over one simple off season, Geelong have shown that by injecting pace into areas like the forwardline, you can turn things around pretty quickly. I partly agree with your comments about VFL level talents (Oscar, Frost, Josh Wagner and possibly Fritsch) and those over the hill (Jones and probably Lewis), but our core is still just as strong as any other side in the comp on their day. It's just getting to their day that's the problem and with fitness not on our side, and our pathetic defence, we need to go back to the drawing board, RE: game style.

My uncle came across a Melbourne player during the week who said Brendan McCartney was rubbing some of the players up the wrong way, because he was pushing them so hard. It's mere speculation, but I presume that McCartney, like the rest of the FD, realise how low our fitness base is and that therefore we need to push a little harder than you usually would in Rounds 1-3. The biggest concern for me isn't McCartney in this instance, it's the fact that a player would say this to a random stranger. It's very un-Melbourne-like under the stewardship of Peter Jackson. The reason I post this is because I know the club read this forum and so I hope we have some internal conversations about loose lips sinking ships. Keep any internal rumblings to a minimum from now on. Thank you.

I think it was always a case of deciding whether we'd continue to back in our system (and that maybe we just had an off day in the Prelim) or it was about making some tweaks to the system to ensure that the control style wouldn't win out against us. Unfortunately, it seems we haven't made any adjustments and that's pretty incredible when you think of what the FD are paid and the professionalism required in the AFL. It was interesting seeing even Essendon try the control style / keepings off a bit tonight and actually, usually it came unstuck due to their own terrible disposal, but it's pretty clear that the league has worked out that control over chaos football will eventually win out. And certainly, this is the key to beating us, because our defence is so poor, we have very little ability to properly counter-attack. I think the answer to short to mid term success is a mixture of both styles. I liked that we started going backwards and sideways off some of our centre clearances. This showed a greater value for possession, which I called for at the end of last week, but we simply didn't do it enough. I'm thinking we need to do this more, not all the time, but where appropriate, we need to use the wings or the increased space afforded in the centre square due to the 6-6-6 rule, to ensure we get the most value for our midfield dominance and from our centre clearances in general. If we start playing more tempo and control off some clearances, I think we'll get better conversion and it'll mean the opposition has less time to impact on the scoreboard going the other way. So there's a bit of a twofold improvement possibility there. It's also pretty clear that the zone defence and aggressive press is a double-edged sword. We're not quick enough to play the bombing it long and crumbing chaos style that Richmond made so successful across 2017 and 2018, but we're also too slow not to play at least a soft zone defence to cover for runners out the back. Defensively, I'm at a loss as to how to solve the lack of 1v1 wins, but if we tidy up our offence, that will become a form of defence, because teams won't be able to slingshot on us as easily. I'm wondering where the inventive mind of Craig Jennings has gone.

You're absolutely delusional. He was finished 2 years ago, when he was almost immediately surpassed by younger players. He's too slow for a wing, he offers very little leadership and still goes around aimlessly bombing it when there are better options in front of him. He can no longer win the inside possession with as much skill as any of our mids (his mode of clearance was always Brent Moloney-like anyway - long bombs), so he's finished. We need to accept that, thank him for his years of loyal service and move on. How he was made captain again this year is absolutely beyond me, but anyway, I've long held the view that he's a limited player (at his best, a solid B grader), with little, to no onfield leadership. It speaks volumes for the rest of the leadership stocks on our list that he was made captain again.

Not entirely sure I agree with this. We tried something new tonight. We had players short for the kick in as (usually) decoys. We'd then go to Max, Tom or Weid 60 out. Those short players (usually a Hibberd or Wagner) would then either guard space or come up to the next contest to be the front and centre. I actually like the thinking and it showed that at least we have worked on something with that new rule.

Wow, mate. You're human. Everyone has a breaking point. And completely agree.

That's not true at all. We were worse for longer. Hardly played in the first quarter, particularly in the second part of the quarter and then were completely absent and insipid everywhere in the third. They played a poor second quarter, but otherwise were patchy but played the better football for longer. It is finals over now, so in effect, season over. I think we did a lot right at times. We finally used the ball better from back to front and even from some centre stoppages, we used the ball backwards and then went sideways in order not to bomb it to an outnumber. Our biggest issue is we don't do any of it for long enough. We're playing in patches. It really is hopeless and I still think fitness related. What is so embarrassing and frustrating is that many media pundits tipped us for the flag. We'll finish in the bottom 6 at this stage. The inability to win 1v1s early on and then the inability to win clearances in the third sealed the game. Frost and Oscar look like conceding goals every time the ball is kicked in there, and they usually do. Even when our system and press was working a bit, every time it went forward, Frost would drop a mark or Oscar would get outmuscled or either of them would be pushed under the ball. The goal that Frost conceded on the much smaller man in Baguley was unforgivable. Baguley for the record is a scrubber, bog ordinary player. Particularly playing forward. We also made McKernan, who is a VFL standard forward, look A grade. Typical Melbourne. There was another crucial play at the end of the second. Frost marked the ball on the wing and banged it in centrally to about the 45 metre mark to Max (in a 4 on 1), instead of going to the boundary side of our forward fifty. Essendon brought it to ground, ran it out and scored a goal. Their first for the entire term. In the second term, our midfielders and Max looked really angry and they seemed to channel that really well into winning ferocious clearances. But for the majority of the third quarter, we let simple transition happen and failed to defend clearances. Our defence in the second term started to resemble our defence of 2018 (in a good way), but I think generally Oscar and Frost (given their finals experience now) haven't improved their games. In some ways, they've become worse - at least they won some 1v1s in 2018! Fritsch was playing the interceptor off the wing, but constantly turns it over or chews off more than he should, but more worryingly, like last year, looks completely lost in defence. The goal that Parish kicked from the right forward pocket is a perfect example of Fritsch's inabilities. Firstly, he left his man to try and impact on the contest where we already had a 2v1, so 3 Melbourne players go to the single Essendon player, who chips it over the top to a free player. Fritsch then has time to get back and block up space after not impacting on the contest at all, but he leaves it to Wagner, who is completely out of position, trying to cover 2 other Essendon players. Can we take Fritsch down off the banner yet? I have no idea why he's up there in the first place. Turn over merchant. Statistically, ANB laid some tackles tonight, but he is cusp AFL when playing at his absolute best. Right now, he's playing incredibly poorly and he too is clearly low on confidence, but his basic errors just kill us. Petracca showed some more tonight. He made some seriously bad errors too, but he stayed involved and set up a lot of scoring chains. I think he'll get there this season. We just need to keep backing him. I'm glad KK got some more metres into the legs. He's silk and I think if he can stay on the park, his outside run will be really good for our transition. Love his goal kicking action too. So relaxed. Lockhart did enough to keep his spot as did Hunt, despite rarely (if ever) laying a tackle. In fact, Hunt's tackle attempts routinely slipped, but he, like Petracca, stayed involved and in the game. His pressure on Merrett(?) to bring the ball to ground and then spot up Gus, was a great example of his doggedness tonight. Tommy Mac doesn't look fit and looked sore after a corky or two. Can barely put his arms up either. We wondered whether he was carrying a shoulder injury. He's close to useless at the moment. I wonder if it's worth playing a more mobile forwardline and giving Tom a week off? I was impressed with the majority of Weideman's game. Particularly, after quarter time. I thought he was arguably our best forward, along with Petracca and Melksham. He laid tackles, took at least one good contested mark and brought the ball to ground importantly a couple of times. He went at one contest in the first really softly and with the one hand, but after that moment he really lifted his game. He's another one with a beautiful, relaxed kicking action. Overall though, I don't think these set of defenders can play the zone defence. They get caught out of position far too easily (McKernan marking on Hibberd early on; Frost being outmarked by Baguley - just a few examples) and they almost always all go up together to defend. This has been happening, literally, for years. Why has it not been corrected? I sense Chaplain may well be out of his depth. It'll be interesting to see what they do with him at the end of this year. I've just read a quote from Goody that says 'we're too easy to score against' and this pretty much sums it up. We dominate possession against most teams and then they get a few inside 50s and basically, almost every time they score a goal. This is no longer merely about 'getting the ball out the back' against us. This is failing to win 1v1s, failing to rush the ball through when we have the numbers, failing to defend dangerous areas inside forward 50. There are holes everywhere in our defence. Wagner, Frost and McDonald are constantly out of position in the zone and Hibberd has been bog ordinary since 2017 now. Even Jetta at times goes up in those big pack situations when he should be staying down. It seems to me as though the directive is just get the ball to the front of the contest in those pack situations and ensure it doesn't get out the back (although it almost always does), and in our haste and anxiety to ensure the ball doesn't get out the back, we all go up, leaving opposition crumbers to waltz off with the ball. I'm at a loss as to what defensive system the coaches can implement though, given we can't go man-on-man if we rarely win 1v1s and the zone doesn't work because the majority of the defence constantly get lost in it. However, without another obvious system, I would say that going 1v1 more often would help us. It lessens the complexity to a group of players that either aren't gelling or are rarely positioned where they should be due to a lack of game awareness. It's all well and good to say we need May and Lever in there, because that's true, but it fails to take into account the inability of the rest of the defence. One of Frost or McDonald will still play, even when May and Lever are fit, so if it's broken, we may need to rebuild it. And already, start planning for 2020 with a new system. Hard to implement mid-season, I know. I dread to think about Franklin next week. You watch. He'll kick a minimum of 4, probably 5 or 6. And I think we have to play Jeff Garlett, because we desperately lack crumbers. A thoroughly disappointing night and the only supporter base more smug than the Essendon supporter base is Hawthorn's. Painful sitting through it.

I'll tell you what I do? I notice patterns and I notice work rate and I see that there is a lack of work rate due most probably to fitness and an injury riddled pre season. Essentially the same team won two finals on the MCG 7 months ago. To compare this team to a Neeld team is either aggressively negative or completely lacking in any understanding of football. Did you actually watch Neeld teams or did you have your eyes closed for those years? This team is nothing like a Neeld team.

No, but I'd prefer to be constructive where possible and not be completely gloomy at every opportunity. The way my good friend Ernest put it, seemed a tad too defeatist to me.

Righto.

I don't know why I'm even bothering to enter this conversation since neither of us know the intimate details, but do you really think a shrewd operator like Peter Jackson would have kept Misson at the club if he wasn't happy with him? Seriously, your constant rantings about Misson are the very definition of twaddle. You have no idea, you're completely speculating and unless you've had any medical insight into even each of those cases, your comments are arrogant and pointless. This constant 'I know better than professionals' or 'I know better than properly qualified people' is what's wrong with our society at the moment. You just sound like a dill.

He was named in the back pocket last week too. I think you know by now that where certain players are named is rarely the position they actually start.

You've got no idea what you're talking about.