Adam The God

Completely agree mate.

If you listen to Round 1 and 2 post pressers from Goody, they were about managing expectations. The club knows that the transition game style took a number of rounds for Collingwood to click in 2022 and for Hawthorn to click last year. I'm sure they were hoping we had Windsor, McVee and Lindsay available to us in those games Kozzy was missing, and were hoping we'd eek out 2 wins from the first three fixtures before Kozzy's return. I'd say we're below par, but we'll know more by the middle of the year. I'd say they'd want to be close to equal ledgering by that point.

I agree. Above, I've said that we have a mental fragility that we were told Darren Shand would be all over. The mental stuff is the most worrying. How much of it can be fixed by building trust in the system? I suspect much of it, so we need to play 4 quarters of footy that utilises the ball movement we've spent the summer and the previous summer practising, and give it a chance to gel, and from there perhaps belief and confidence grows. We had a similar game style in 2017-2018 that took a bit of time to gel, but by the second half of 2018 was becoming instinctive. When we shifted our game style from a super high press and repeat entries of this era to the defence first, contest first of territory, but less aggressive but repeat entries and overrunning the opposition in 3rd and 3th quarters across 2021, it took us 2019-2020 to shift that game style. Last year, we started the first part of the season playing a hybrid stoppage / transition game that was very hit and miss, but had us 6-2. We then lost to Collingwood, and lost our most influential score involvement player in Trac that was helping sustain the new game style. But the coaches (and players, I reckon) lost their nerve and went back to a territory contest game of 2021-2023. This had us in games against quality opposition like GWS and Port, but it meant we were delaying the inevitable, and wasting time practising the new model. I'd hope we could get it to click in 2025, but as I say, it took us two years 2019-2020 to get the defence first two way running game perfected by 2021, so 2026 might be the year we rocket up. It's hard to say, but first and foremost we have to stick to the plan and hold our nerve. Second, we need continuity out on the field with those guys that can transition the ball without simple turnovers. And third, we need to sort out our mental fragility.

I've acknowledged also that something is going on internally, because there seems to be pretty clear mentality fragility amongst the playing group.

The Lindsay news is a huge relief as his imminent return is already vital to our new game style.

Definitely out of steam in Round 1, but looked to me like we laid down last week and this week.

I didn't say they did. They used to. And they were pilloried for it, and then they shifted their game to territory like ours. And now they've shifted again.

I agree. Wasn't Shand meant to be this guiding mental force now?

We're trying to play a new game style. The players didn't keep at it for long enough yesterday. It was an ordinary performance. Absolutely no doubt about that. Listless. We are using the chipping game at half back that Geelong and then Hawthorn last year used. When we played Hawthorn last year, we beat them by 9 goals. They spent most of the game chipping it uncontested across half back to free themselves up from our zone. It didn't work and they looked listless. Sound familiar? Hawthorn also lost their first five games last year. They were pummelled. It took time to build confidence and trust in their system. They lost to Essendon by 4 goals, to us by 9 goals, Geelong by 6 goals, Collingwood by 5 points, Suns by practically 9 goals, before finally beating a hopeless, bottom of the table North in Round 6. To me, our players look like they don't trust the system. Yet. Go back to the start of 2022 and Collingwood trying to learn their new run and gun game style under McRae. They were 5 wins, 5 losses to Round 10, and at times looked completely hopeless. They got on a roll after that. The point I'm obviously making is this will take time. To start talking about rebuilding or sacking the coach at Round 3 is ridiculous. Even if we were to sack Goody, the coach who would replace him would be trying to play the transition game we're trying to implement. I think it's perfectly fine to have this conversation at the end of the season, and I think we'll know earlier, but the idea that we pack it all in after we've been trying to implement a new game style based on quick, accurate ball use (utilising Windsor, McVee, Lindsay and Kozzy), when most of them have failed to get on the park is folly IMO. Is our list build at its conclusion? Of course it b loody isn't. We'll need to keep adding guys that can run and have clean skills like those aforementioned guys (and be aggressive with our trading), but that doesn't mean this season is over. If Hawthorn had thought that after Round 5 2024, they'd be nowhere, and Collingwood after Round 10 2022, no flag for them. The key stumbling block is the potential mental fragility of our players, which is being mirrored by some supporters who want to rebuild after 3 rounds. We need to execute on game day and build trust in the system, at least for 2025. A guy like Langford who was hitting those angled kicks into the corridor yesterday, we need more of, Kozzy is capable of them too. Instead of going back slowly, because the movement ahead of the ball and around the ball carrier is stagnant or uncertain, we start hitting those kicks more, and the ball movement becomes more instinctive, which means players start to trust the game style more. I still think Viney needs to play forward (he won't be dropped), Trac needs to play majority forward and Sparrow needs to make way or (as @rjay has previously suggested), we try him in the Hibberd lockdown defensive role, which might free McVee up to play high half back. Rivers needs to play midfield too, because he butchers it too often at half back. Our starting midfield should be Oliver, Langford and Kozzy, with support coming from Trac, Rivers and Viney.

Thought Howes was okay, and Howes plays a different role to lockdown. Might have worked though.

Anyone that saw the game, it seems Adams is continuing to improve. I wouldn't be against giving him a taste of AFL soon. From the pre season, it seems he's become more a May than a Petty or Lever.

I think we've nailed both top end picks from last year. Langford played his first full game for 26 disposals at 77% DE, 5 clearances, 10 score involvements, and 1 goal 1 off 66% TOG. Taylor's recruitment of high end mids is second to none. Manufacture him more picks at the end of this year please.

Agree. Something's going on internally. We played three quarters last week and at the first hint of adversity, the heads dropped. After a quarter today, the heads dropped and even though it was 2-3 goals again, we just never looked like it.

Thought Bowey was good too mate, otherwise completely agree. Rowell waltzed it out of stoppage. Our midfield set up is a complete mess.

Aside from the first 15 or so minutes where we looked to control the ball across half back and generated multiple slingshot opportunities on turnover that were ruined by poor entries from the likes of Viney again, it was a listless and aimless performance. I could wear a loss if we played with dare and to a plan, but we deviated from it pretty much immediately. After the first quarter it became a long down the line game, and players fumbled, dropped chest marks, missed easy targets by hand and foot, and generally looked totally bereft of confidence. It was bizarre how quickly we lost confidence, I can only assume all is not well behind closed doors, because it was our leaders leading from the front with all these basic errors. We're in trouble. Next week could be 186 ugly. We've already dropped our heads once this year.

So this analysis is basically contradictory or at the very least bad faith. You can't dismiss the missing players who will make the new game style work and allow us to implement it and then claim the coach is putting his faith in the wrong guys. We've been a stoppage team for years, until we shifted in the first half of last year. The game style we want to play that is fast and accurate requires the missing players from the back. If we can get some continuity with our best team, we can have an advantage over those teams you mention with our stoppage game as those other teams rely on transition for scores. We just need to be good enough transition and keep our stoppage game going (our stoppage game was dreadful all game against North).

Agreed, I'd keep Viney out of centre bounce unless Clarry is on the bench, but I'd prefer Trac becomes the man in the case of Oliver on the bench. I don't think we have to be as aggressive as trading out all of Oliver, Viney, Sparrow and Trac, @GS_1905 . I'd just be playing Trac majority forward, with 40% mid time, Viney as a pressure small forward that can attend forward 50 stoppages and Sparrow out of the team, unless he plays purely as a midfield stopper. Oliver, Kozzy, Trac, Rivers, Langford and even Chandler definitely has more balance to it, with Windsor and Bowey off the back of stoppages ala 2017-2018, plus Lindsay and Salem at high half back. I also agree with @binman that it's easy to overreact after one game.

Good post, DS. Oliver should play mid 100%, Viney play mostly forward and get involved in forward 50 stoppages, Trac should play 50-50 forward-mid, and Sparrow may eventually need to make way. Get McVee and Windsor into the team and alongside Lindsay and Bowey, we might start to see better execution. And the problem is some fans have no patient to watch the implementation. They complained for 2 years (2022-2023) about the shifting modern game style, and the minute we start to try and modify our game quite drastically and it doesn't click immediately, fans are up in arms. We're trying to play style that we need to play to be successful going forward, but a game that relies on fast, accurate transition, but we're missing two of guys that will improve this immensely.

Our backline was under siege because our mids let their mids walk it out of stoppage.

Might have happened if outsiders had been elected to the board...

And if Kalani White is any good, we'll get him for a second rounder...

And you reckon Goody and Chaplin are instructing the players to bomb long to 2 and 3 vs 1 contests? In Round 1, there was decidedly more space in our forwardline and we moved the ball well. It's on the players.

Chaplin oversaw the highest scoring forwardline in the league in 2018. It's Round 2. You don't know what you're talking about.

Narrower ground doesn't help...

Again, my post said the modern game, ie what wins games right now. Not what wins games and flags in 2021. And if your pressure and contest is off in 2024-2025 you get beaten...