IvanBartul13

The list is definitely not definitive, it's more of a list of NGA players that are possibly draftable prospects. As well as Keeler, there are other discrepancies.

I didnt realise you can have 3 Catagory B rookies so that gives Emile-Brennan a chance. The AFL will surely produce a list of nominated players soon because Cooper Vickery (Hawthorn) Nathan Barkla (Port Adelaide), Jasper Scaife (Fremantle) and Yuyu Ashwin ( Collingwood) would be certain to be wanted as rookies at least by their clubs and theres been no mention of them being nominated.

Not sure what you are meaning, Jack? Like you, I don't really see much point in club's investing in academies if they don't get access to the good players they develop, but the Emile-Brennan situation, if indeed the club as I suspect has not nominated him, would merely be down to a recruiting/list management decision from the club. I don't how club's thinking specific NGA graduates aren't good enough or the right fit for their list is relevant to evaluating the system.

I don't think we are interested in him.

I'm not 100% on this, but I'm pretty sure it activates the bidding process in the draft system which is all computerised now. Without nominating, another club just picks him with a pick after 40 and he is theie player/pick. If he's nominated as an NGA when they pick that player in the system, it becomes a bid with the option to match or not. I also think it gives the nominating club the option to category B rookie the player before the rookie draft if he doesn't get drafted in the national draft, like we did with Andy Moniz-Wakefield.

Almost no chance, likely have one rookie addition and it will be a live rookie pick, may also keep a spot open for a train-on player.

I wouldn't draft him with pick 100. Go back and watch his tape. He doesn't bodyline opponents when he tackles, he ducks his head in marking contests and when opponents have the ball his chasing effort is not up to standard and he provides next to know spread from contest. His contested hands game is wildly over-rated too, often panicking in the heat of the contest and flipping it to random areas. He's got a lovely technical kick on him and great size for a midfielder and when he gets on the end of chains of possessions and in some space, there is some Nathan Buckley about him. If I knew he had an injury or something like that I would give him a pass mark but his lack of defensive heat and spread from stoppage were massive red flags and the reasons he is dropping in my opinion.

He didn't kick 100 when he was at Melbourne and not saying he wasn't a champion local footballer but to suggest he was better than Adem is laughable (Adem kicked 21 goals in school shoes as a 15yo in a schoolboys game and had he played suburban and country footy in his prime would have ran absolutely rampant and probably kicked tons from midfield.

im just theorising based on Demons11 post.

It's a construct to serve the purpose of father-son picks, it really shouldn't be used as trade guide, by clubs or pundits, particularly with later picks which have far too high points attached to them. If clubs had unlimited list spots, a club having picks 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43 for example would have a nice bundle of picks to draft a lot of players and hopefully find a few mid-late round gems. With fixed list sizes, there just even list room for clubs to be able to use the picks. This is why pick 53 is essentially valueless, because if there is only 60 players or so drafted, a free list spot at worst gives you pick 61. And this is where the system is farcical because according to the point values, those six picks I mentioned above have the points value greater than that pick 2 in the draft. There just isn't list spots and even more crucially any sensible reason to trade picks 38 through to 43 for pick 2. The reverse suits Brisbane of course and its why the system is ridiculous. The machinations of the AFL are a disgrace in these areas. As for our trade, in reality we are probably a few picks light of what we should be getting but of course you need a trade partner that has a use for our picks. The risk is Port then use our picks and get a better deal. But for our purposes, if it nets Grundy then it doesn't really matter.

I think the suggestion is that we would give them 13 and 27 and get Grundy and 16 back.

It beggars belief that these journalistic imbeciles like Ralph and Barrett still use the absolutely moronic points value system as gospel. It is based on the NFL points system whose draft has over 250 picks and whose teams have effectively infinite list spots. Pick 60 in the NFL is probably the equivalent of pick 20 in the AFL. Most of the points allocations are hence completely skewed and clubs using the system (not including clubs mining picks for father son matching, a rort) would be hugely exploitable. Pick 53 has an effective points value of nothing and pick 43 is only marginally more valuable. No club in their right mind would give up pick 14 for picks 33, 43 and 53 (father son pick harvesting notwithstanding) when a free list spot automatically gets you pick 55.

The future is irrelevant to my comments and to your sniping. I was saying that clubs will value top five picks in this particular draft probably reasonably close together with a dropoff to the how they value subsequent picks. Most clubs put players in tiers or bands when they compose their draftboard. What actually happens in the future is irreleVant to the value of a pick as a trade asset unless the clubs have some way of seeing into the future.

I think that's one of the most breathlessly obtuse things I've read. Was it deliberate? My comment was in relation to how Pick 7 would be valued as a trade asset, I was not suggesting good players won't be available at that spot or that players taken after 5 can't or won't be better than those taken above them. Either way, It would be helpful if you could put forward your top tier of players. Most have Ashcroft, Wardlaw, Cadman, Tsatas and Sheezel as a band of players and potential number one pick candidates. I add Josh Weddle to that group, many stop at 5. Who are your top tier? Or did you misinterpret the premise of my comment? I'm not saying the supply of quality players ends at 5 or 6, but that clubs would value pick 5 closer to pick 3, than they would pick 7 to pick 5, as an example.

in what regard?

they don't need any spots - he can be classed/taken as a Category B rookie outside of the Rookie List proper.

I've probably got Jefferson and Hollands too low in my top 50. Petric, Binns, Murdoch, McMullin I had in my phantom and they all stiff to not be in top 50. I stil can't get Szybowkski in my top 100 and yet he is in everyones top 20. Clarke worries me not a crumber and not really a marking player and he is a bit undiscipled. I probably under-rate him, but we'll see. It was a very good game. Saturday, you will see some very good kids in Harley Reid's vintage. My early number 1 - Zane Duursma Archer Reid a very good key forward Ethan Read - a very good, technical tap ruckman Ashton Moir - two-footed forward. Kynan Brown playing as well.

Of course and you are right about the Suns, they have a strange list dynamic where they seemingly are constantly having more picks than they need. But the pick still has the same value in the AFL universe and they probably would have a decent market for it if they wanted to trade it for a future pick. There is nothing stopping them realising its value as an asset, even if they don't really need it as much as other clubs at the current point in time. In any case, and this point will not be lost on @Redleg, it's that the optics of us paying full trade price for Grundy if clubs are effectively being coerced into taking Bowes and the Bulldogs paid way unders for Adam Treloar, that will be hard to deal with.

It's relevant in the sense that we should realise a trade discount from Collingwood for opening space in their salary cap, much the same as what Gold Coast are seemingly offering.

It's possible but Gold Coast have to get something back in the trade for it to be AFL sanctioned. I would be very surprised if they get nothing back of any value. If they want a pick in the teens back it's not quite so inviting. if they are happy to take a future third or something back, well that changes everything. FWIW, I and many others believe there is a clear tier of top players in the draft which ends at pick 5 or 6.

Collingwood consider it so bad they are willing some of it to get rid of it.

100% agree. It would surprise me if Gold Coast say trade pick 7 and Jack Bowes for pick 30 or something, which would be an extreme salary dump. But it would look poorly for the Dees to take on a 'bad contract' and pay a full draft price. $700k of Bowes contract is still as valuable to get off the books as $700k of Grundy, even if Collingwood are still paying some.

Here is Team Ivan's top 50 with some thoughs on the top 10. i'll hopefully do a mock draft once the order crystallises with more info on the top 50 and other prospects. Elijah Tsatas - Oakleigh Chargers. I think if the Dees somehow managed to get a very high pick, Tsatas could be a target. He faded from view with injury before dominating in what is the best club-level under 18 game - Dragons v Chargers. He's always been known as a very good rangy, high possession winning outside midfielder, but his ability to storm away from stoppage and deliver inside 50 in that game postmarked him as the ideal modern-day midfielder and in turn a number pick candidate. Will Aschroft - Sandringham Dragons There's not a huge reason to write much about Ashcroft as he is certainly off to the Lions with a matched pick one or two, but he's a prodigious ball winner who just keeps running to receive, is skilful and innovative. The scary thing is his brother is looking to be a similar standard of prospect brewing for the Lions. George Wardlaw - Oakleigh Charger It's hard to assess Wardlaw, as he's played so little footy and now has a worrisome recurrent hamstring injury tendency, but he was the standout in a rain-soaked Dragons v Chargers match early in the season. He is tough, tackles, powers through stoppage and is neat and smart with his ball use. This could basically be a Chris Judd/Joel Selwood situation whereby injury has masked what is the best player in the draft pool. Aaron Cadman - North Ballarat Rebels Positional scarcity and positional value drives Cadman this high. I've always felt and think was one of the first to suggest that it will be difficult for teams to pass him over and that he will go very, very high with all the topend-of-the-draft teams having a strong case to take him. He wins in multiple ways, with him both leading well and also having an ever=improving one-on-one wrestling game. The good thing about Cadman is he is not dead when the ball hits the ground, his tackle pursuit is often above-average for a player of his type and he is good below his knees. A lot has been made of his goal-point ratio, but many of those missed shots are low-percentage snaps and ground-levelattempts. The knock on him is actually there haven't been credible opponents for him to play on week to week. Harry Sheezel - Sandringham Dragons Sheezel is the fifth of five credible number one draft pick options in the draft and I wouldn't criticise any team for taking any of them or him. Sheezel's issue is that he plays a role that is theoretically the least valuable from a list rebuilding perspective. He's a highly talented, smooth moving and skilful medium marking half-forward, with a lovely kicking technique and ability to win one-out contests. My only concern is I worry whether he can play as an inside midfielder. He could easily vault to being the best player out of this draft if he can, but I have niggly doubts just about that. Josh Weddle - Oakleigh Chargers I think I have Weddle higher than anyone and just think he will make a long-term major difference to any teams back 6. He can play on talls and smalls, has a terrific team-first attitude and just brings everything you want to the table - accountability, pace on the rebound, intercept marking and flexibility within a defensive grouping. He does have some rough edges but is a terrific kid and whilst it won't happen, I wouldn't criticise a team taking him at one. The ideal modern-day defender. Bailey Humphrey - Gippsland Power Anyone who saw his comeback game for a draft-prospect stacked Gippsland Power would have identified Humphrey as a very high draft pick candidate. He started the game as a dominant leading forward before mixing in some minutes as a very good inside midfielder with cultured hands, the ability to break away from stoppage and a competitive edge. Another who probably needs to add to some ball use polish to be considered an elite prospect, but as a midfielder who can seamlessly play as a deep leading forward or high half forward, he's an exciting prospect and I think at my seventh-ranked player he is the last player I can see teams aggressively trading up to get. Jhye Clark - Geelong Falcons I have no criticism of Clark, other than I worry he is too small to be a dominant midfielder sufficient to be taken higher. He is however a very good ball winner, neat ball user and has the ability to float forward and be dangerous. A very good well-rounded player but best fitting in with some big-bodied midfield support at the next level. Jedd Busslinger - East Perth Injury has scuppered the back end of Busslinger's season, so it will be interesting to see where he lands, but as a 195+ key back, he has the frame AFL clubs look for in key defenders and is a promising ball of clay for coaches to work with. The exciting thing about Busslinger is that while he needs to bulk up to improve his competitiveness as a defender, he has a terrific sidestep for a player of his size and ilk and is able to seamlessly contribute to attacking ball-movement from the back half, a trait becoming more and more important as the year's roll on. Elijah Hewitt - Subiaco I've been critical of Hewitt but I think the move against him has been too drastic. Hewitt is one of the high-risk kids in this draft. He has the perfect physique for the modern midfielder and prototypical athletic traits. Where it melts away to worrisomeness is there are question marks on his consistency and just his overall smarts and decision-making instincts. It just seems like he needs that little bit of extra time to process the puzzles in front of him with ball in hand. Still, he is dangerous in space, can take an overhead mark and has those great aforementioned physical traits to be good AFL inside mid. Him being proven at WAFL senior level is another tick. I just worry about the headless chookness and methinks that is why he falling out of number one pick contention. Mattaes Phillipou - Woodville/West Torrens - big bodied mid/marking forward Cameron MacKenzie - Sandringham Dragons - well-rounded midfielder Jaspa Fletcher - Brisbane Academy - tall, balanced wingman/mid Alwyn Davey - Essendon father/son - skilful aboriginal high half-forward/wingman Max Gruzewski - Oakleigh Chargers - smooth moving third tall/swingman Henry Hustwaite - Dandenong Stingrays - I see him purely as a promising Ridley-like intercept defender/creator. Others like him as a mid. I do not. Lachie Cowan - Tassie Mariners - rangy and quick rebounding fourth defender. Reuben Ginbey - East Perth - big bodied inside mid/leader. Can play back as well. Clubs will see some Clarrie Oliver in him, very similar build, but Ginbey doesn't have Oliver's otherwordly feel for the game. Jacob Konstanty - Gippsland Power - skilful small forward, deceptively good in a contested. Isaac Keeler - North Adelaide - tall indigenous ruck/forward. Very raw but with intriguing ball skills. Oli Hotton - Sandringham Dragons - midfielder/flanker perhaps the best mark pound for pound in the draft, but inconsistent. Matthew Jefferson - Oakleigh Chargers - lightly framed key forward, will take a long time and I question the opponents he's been outwitting. Jaiden Magor - South Adelaide - two-sided and highly skilled x-factor medium forward. Underexposed due to injury. Oliver Hollands - Murray Bushrangers - lightly-framed outside mid with tremendous running power Lewis Hayes - Eastern Rangers - spindly key back interceptor, Rangers trust him to kick in as well. Darcy Jones - Swan Districts - tiny helmeted small forward/rover, but he is skilful, quick and competitive Harry Barnett - West Adelaide - ruckman who is at his best flying for marks behind the ball. May convert into a key back. Max Michalanney - Adelaide father-son - third defender who is good overhead and poised with ball in hand. Cooper Vickery - Gippsland Power - one of the best ground ball defenders in the draft and a heart and soul player but needs to tidy up his error rate. I probably have him too high. Noah Long - Bendigo Pioneers - small high half-forward with a penetrating kick and a touch of class. Archie Lovelock - Glenelg - competitive two-sided and well-rounded midfield/small forward. Brayden George - Murray Bushrangers - Powerful mid-sized leading forward. Sadly done an ACL. Ed Allan - Claremont - son of Ben Allan - bid bodied half-back/CHB/inside midfielder having a dominant second half of the year post-injury. Sam Gilbey - Claremont - rebounding half-back with silky footskills Coby Burgiel - Gippsland Power - hyper-versatile small runner. Can play wing/half back/defensive forward. Not flashy. Harry Lemmey - West Adelaide - man mountain struggled in the championships. Mobility is a question mark but his actual football skills are very sound versus most his size. Can play forward/ruck and back. Blake Drury - Oakleigh Chargers - some clubs will love him. Small red-headed midfielder/crumber with a good all round game. Harry Rowston - GWS Academy - midfielder with a solid inside/out game. Jack O'Sullivan - Oakleigh Chargers - injury has marred his season but a skilful but slight midfielder/half-forward. Clean/one-touch player. Harvey Gallagher - Bendigo Pioneers - top ager who has excelled as a defensive rebounder/kicker but also can play wing and half-forward. Tom Scully - West Adelaide - 200cm key forward who needs to work on his contested stuff but is good at ground level for his size and a good lead/finisher. Luke Teal - Oakleigh Chargers - rebounding defender with a good all-round game but missed a lot with injury. Adam D'aloia - Woodville- West Torrens - hard-working inside midfielder who grinds through games. Hugh Bond - GWV Rebels - inside ball-winner with good hands/plays like a leader. Not used in his best role in the champs. Olivier Northam - Geelong Falcons - mulleted ruck/forward. Very strong and competitive and with a basketball background. Undersized probably to a be an AFL first ruck is the concern. Harry Cole - Claremont - had a very good championships. Perm-haired medium forward. Deceptively quick and good overhead. Beau Tedcastle - GWV Rebels - will-o-the wisp half forward/goal sneak. Very small and light but evasive. Jakob Ryan - Glenelg - half-back rebounder with very good agility/ball winning but needs to tidy up his distribution. Ryan Eyres - Murray Bushrangers - top ager has moved to defence and whilst he needs to learn has shown excellent ground level skills for a 200cm big man. Seth Campbell - Tassie Mariners - been a bit disappointing but has shown flashes of star quality over the last 24 months as a game-breaking wing/half forward.

shes very well entrenched in Melbourne as a young community leader and with other family members living here too.

is the final vote tally for 2013 avaliable? would love to see if we had terlich and matt jones as hight as they were in the B+F.