Cheap Seats

Once again you like Scoop put up your expectations where YOU THINK THE TEAM SHOULD BE - Don't preach to me because you believe that the club should be in a better position that it is How many times do I need to repeat myself - I am not judging Neeld solely on match day performance as there are other factors for why where we are on the ladder, WHICH IS THE POINT OF THIS THREAD Your inability to accept the development level and experience of the team as of today mean I cannot take your argument seriously. Like Scoop - answer me this Iv'a - who out of the 10 teams we've played this year with the available players we've had should we realistically have beaten - I can only come up with 3 teams and obviously 2 we lost to. You continue to mount your anger at Neeld when a lot of what has happened and where we are today is based on fixing decisions made from PRIOR ADMINISTRATIONS and have expected him to fix everything in 1 year - don't tell me my expectation are out of whack I hope my highlighting your lack of acknowledgment of my argument makes you realise why I cannot take your criticism seriously I accept changes had to be made and I believe Neeld, Craig and co have made the changes so this club has a chance of being a sustained successful club again one day soon

You missed my argument by a long long way Scoop - my reference to the 1 - 9 start this year is solely based on your observation that we are worse off then last year. I will keep it simple as you seem to dodge the questions - who out of our 10 games we've played this year do you reasonably think we are a better side then? Also if the improvement you are after isn't translated on field but is put in to the practices off field so that players who 'buy in' are set up for the future is that really as damaging as you make it out to be? Especially when we as a club are competing against clubs which are years advanced of us.... In summary you expect bloke who have played 0, 1 or even 2 years of AFL footy to step in and lead this club - that is not reality and those blokes make up at least half of our team each week You judgement of Neeld is based on your expectations - you say it so yourself At least look to see what he is bring to the club and where the club is at before making such judgements. Neeld is meant to be bring elitel performance and standards off the field as well - I would be upset if he wasn't meeting those standards - because once they are in place and the MINIMUM expectations have been set as Dawes points out in multiple press conferences then you have a platform to judge realiably

I understand the importance of performance and getting wins now Scoop - everyone dose it's obvious we are a bottom 3 VIC club Our club has been severely damaged by the Bailey era and Tanking etc - the admin has [censored] up since 2007 and we continue to pay for it now. The board don't stand united and show no strength and the media's pass time is to hammer us I won't compromise my beliefs because the media put pressure on us - I don't want the club to take short cuts for quick fixes which will see the club to remain lingering down the bottom (like the Tigers) - they took at least 4 years under dimma, and he refused to take short cuts Even you Scoop admit in your answers the whole MFC needs fixing - we need good people and people who know success and we need to back them in to make the changes - not back out half way though Neeld, Craig & Mission all come from successful clubs who have won premiership or continually compete for them - because you don't like the direction Neeld and co have taken doesn't mean they don't know how to produce success. I believe they know how to get the job done and it will take time. Changes don't happen overnight (see above if you need clarification) I won't sacrifice my beliefs to bow to the media or anyone else

We are pretty much exactly the same win loss pace s last year... We still have the same problems as last year - low fitness base, low experience, low leadership and low effort levels on field... And we've moved on players who don't want to 'buy in' - which was more experience out the door.... You say your expecations are low but do you even look in to our situation? Apart from Port (who spiked very early in the season),and Gold Coast who have we lost to that you would say is a far less superior side? I honestly think you over rate our list (I will look it up soon as i am going to be forced to prove my point) and the team we field each week they contain around 8 - 10 blokes under 40 games. We are on par with GC and GWS..... my expectations are in check Out of the ten sides we've played this year the majority (IMO GWS are the only team on our level) are far better and have more experience across the field. I am bloody serious have a look at the sides they're all more experienced and the teams who have flogged us are very good sides, better then us that's for sure Coupled with the off field issues which compound our problems you should come to a conclusion that we are in REBUILD mode - something the likes of Hawks, Cats, Pies, GC etc have all had the luxury of doing.... I have no doubt Neeld didn't expect us to be so poor - just read this forum no one did. Please look deeper in to the circumstances currently surrounding the MFC before giving me your expectations and telling me I should live by them. You haven't given any thought to the really of the difficulty the MFC faces and that we have to rebuild - there are no short cuts This is actually hard for me to answer - you'll find it hard to believe but I do agree that his on field performance is not encouraging But I am willing to give Neeld to the end of the season - which is the least the club should do

Spot on Django - it all goes back to the question of the rebuild If the board approved the rebuild then what they are doing to Neeld now is wrong If they didn't hen Neeld should be fired What is this undecided crap? The Board are as much at fault as Neeld if not more, afterall the majority of them are responsible for the Bailey era (Don't know exact details I must admit that

I suppose Guy McKenna just got lucky with GC

I understand your point, you believe that the performance of the club right now is an indication of the of the development and capability of Neeld as a coach. You want performance now. What I am trying to say is you are overly harsh with your judgement because the reality is that the MFC list is made up of very few leaders with experience (Dunn, Sylvia, Dawes, Clark, Davey, Byrnes, Rodan, Frawley, jamar, Garland etc). These players don't play in the side all at one time, these players are not players who can carry the load of a developing team. A lot of people on here argue that ONLY one of these blokes if not 2 are only good enough to be in the team now. Our team that takes the field is made up of blokes who have played 0 - 40 games (I reckon a good 8 - 10 each week have less then 40 games of AFL), you don't want to accept that mistakes from prior administrations are carried forward on to the field in 2013 as well - failed draft picks - poor development and poor standards (Players who don't perform at AFL level consistently). We are a team of kids and you expect competitiveness week in week out against the best sides in the comp from a bunch of kids and blame Neeld solely for the un-competitiveness . How can you reliably judge Neeld performance as a coach based on a developmental team over 18 months? its nonsense People need to accept changes were made because ELITE performance was demanded by the board. Step 1 - find out who is committed, Step 2 - train them up Step 3 - education and gain experience at AFL level - this change doesn't happen overnight., and it doesn't happen in 12 months like people seem to expect It takes time, that why I believe strongly the club is continuing to make serious errors in judgment by folding to the media pressure who only want to fracture the club more. The board demanded HIGH performance at the appointment of Neeld and expecting it to be delivered in 12 - 18 months when it could be argued the list wasn't up for it (how far behind the comp was the list when he started??? They don't catch up over one pre-season). Coupled with the history of this under performing club for decades and you want to argue it should have taken 12 months? The basic question is - What do you want more? Development of a committed list or short cuts to be competitive and remain a medicore club? the is a reason we are bottom 3 in VIC as a club - it's decades of crap expectations and NO ONE committed to demand and see ELITE performance delivered

Exactly Django We need to fix the club internally before we will ever be a successful club. Errors of past administrations and the past FD still haunt the club today. No one especially the media give any breathing room to Neeld who's almost been asked to do the impossible - fix the club and perform all within 18 months. You don't see this pressure on St K or Bulldogs and they are arguably in the same boat with better lists I accept people are upset with our short term performance (I am as well) but big picture stuff - if we ever want to promote elite standards and change the club they need to back Neeld & Craig & Mission or bring someone else in NOW to do it and back them in all the way. That's why I find the Neeld decision so confusing - I'm pretty sure we all accept Neeld was told to come in shake things up and bring the standards of Collingwood to the FD, recruiting etc etc Then the board give him an 18 months ultimatum. If the board are serious about change it's clear Neeld needs more time. If short term performance was the priority why wasn't that communicated with us (the supporters) and Neeld? The board has dropped the ball big time...... again. Thankfully for Jackson as I fear for what the might do next....

Good post chookrat - and I agree with what you've said I know we've sacrificed a lot trying to bring in this new culture - but to go back on it now would be another BIG mistake by the club. Performance is important but short term it's not the biggest problem that had to be fixed - I strongly beivle on field will improve when we get everything else that is wrong in the club right first that was broken under the last reign FD Board Recruiting/Drafting erc etc It will come people we need strong leadership NOW - thank god for Peter Jackson, I don't think our board can make a correct decision

I'm sorry Iv'a it's well documented that Moloney dropped his bundle - from inside and outside the club sources. That is not leadership. Rivers contrary to belief left to pursue success in what little time he has left of his career That's the debate I guess in a nut shell. What standards do we want at the MFC - elite hard working or one way traffic? Neeld was told to bring in ELITE performance to this club as a requirement - players who refused to take it on (Moloney) or weren't good enough (Cook etc) were told to pack their bags or decided to pack their bags Regardless if you support Neeld or not - Are we as a club willing to make the tough calls to bring in ELITE standards or do we accept being mediocre?? If bring elite standards means a full re-build do you accept it? I support Neeld & Craig demanding elite performance and moving on those who choose not to take on the challenge. Others won't and you don't have to... Neeld was brought in to do this and it would be hypocritical now of the board to fire him for bringing in changes they demanded.

Also when talking about Neeld the coach and changes you need to take in to account the poor state the FD and the club was left in when Neeld took over (And why I think Neeld should rebuild) Failed draft picks one after another have hamstrung the club of leadership. Blokes like Dunn, Davey, Jamar, etc have struggled or refuse to take up the slack of an under developed list Sylvia, Frawley and Garland we can't be sure where they stand. People bag Neelds recruitment without even mentioning the lack of leaders at the club in the first place. Moloney and Rivers walked to persue own interests no matter what you believe they both dropped their heads when asked to work harder. The performance to date is a reflection of the Poor Administration and FD decisions from the past (prior Neeld) coupled with lack of leadership and experience now. Neeld's had 18 months in to a rebuild -that is unrealistic In anyones language - The board need to stick to the plan or fire Neeld NOW - it's a cop out and a joke that no decision has been made No decision gives licence to the players to be unaccountable IMO a direct conflict in what we as a club are trying to acheive Neeld may yet fire himself but the board has really put him in an unrealistic position by not backing him. Just another bad decision by a weak club really - it's going to be an interesting couple of weeks either way, and it's we the supporters, members and club that will continue to suffer

We could debate this for hours and all year about how the season has imploded, why it's gone wrong and what we should do now. I don't question Neelds change of tact as he promoted hope at the start of the season and he season has imploded in his face and there is only reality and hard work to deal with now. You actually have to admire him facing that reality because we all know results are important and he is unlikely to keep his job. Simple fact is - Neeld has been brought in to change the culture and improve standards at the club. Do we allow this to happen without focusing on results or are results too important?? The board need to tell us what direction we should be taking - it's a cop out by the board what they are doing now. Neeld and the club have been compromised further, it really is a joke. I am not saying results are not important as they are - But we as a club need to choose a direction and stick to it. I believe Neeld was brought in to rebuild the club and that is the direction I wish the club to take, that is all I am saying.

That is a very dangerous game the club is playing TimD The board barracking that the team fails - what a great situation the club is in. Another management failure?

Thats fine that's your opinion You should write a letter and inform the board you've solved the problem - because there must be something the board knows that you don't as the performance of Neeld hasn't gotten him sacked yet.... There is clearly more to Neelds employment then just on field performance and they way you rate him etc I don't care if you accept it or not PS: I am not going to get in a [censored] for tat argument with you and BH over how the board should rate Neeld - It's pretty clear thought Neelds performance is not solely based on the criteria you blokes think.... On top of that no one has any idea what Neelds agenda/plan was or is now.... Wasting time

haha I've wondered that all season as well BigFrog I agree it's depressing - but you only have to look at the teams fielded each week to see that we are in a developmental stage. I will continue to watch and listen and if Neeld continues to fail in all areas then he should be moved on

Cool story bro - would read again I have no doubt if he can't improve on what's been implemented in effort and structure he will be gone at seasons end...... Thanks for sharing

Didn't stevens say Neeld would be sacked today?? Why do people listen to this [censored]? Jackson won't be solely appointing anyone

True - the point you missed is they weren't sacked through re-building stages, which we've only got Neeld to confirm that the club has taken that route at this stage. Don't give a flying if you agree with that or not but fact is we are playing a lot of young blokes and trying to put some decent senior talent around them. Schwab was sacked when he declared the hawks would win the flag - Shaw and Eade are too long ago for me to remember. But name the ready made replacement we have lined up to replace Neeld? Thanks for updating me on what I can see on field BH - But if you notice the thread title this thread is about aspects other then Neeld, stick to Time to go Neeld - to talk your crap about how you hate Neeld. I've already had this discussion with Scoop Junior that PERFORMANCE is one measure

Sorry mate just jumped in on that convo Apologies With such bad performances we as a club are walking a fine line I agree - finding a competitive 18 is a pretty tough job ATM - glad it isn't me

I haven't watched the replay yet but i will..... I agree with your summary Deeluded - we got smashed on the scoreboard but it wasn't all doom and gloom I accept people will smash me for having the non popular opinio,n but I've listened to Dawes and Neeld over the past few weeks and you can see positive changes if you look through the scoreboard results

Haha imagine the lols

x 2 Many say neeld fractured the club by making moves too early. Looking forward to seeing how this plays out

Only the FD can answer that for sure I am sure there are targets players have to meet before getting a game - all coaches not only Neeld set these - I don't think the public would have any idea what these are unless you have direct contact with the FD or a player

I've said on multiple occasions that I agree - you can't be happy with Neelds performance on occasions, but you also need to take things in context. What you fail to take on board yet again is that his performance is 1 factor in multiple factors in his employment. You and I both have no idea for certain what Neeld has been advised to do with the club. And the media clearly don't. I don't blame you for being upset with Neelds performance and the performance of the club. But I choose to look at the plight of the club from multiple perspectives - not just performance. I am not buying any spin, I am making decisions from information I get from people inside and around the club. If we can't trust their opinions who can we trust? I am not going to be making my mind up from whats written or spoken in the media thats for sure.

No problems at all BigFrog - I do agree with what you've said there I think today PJ will be giving that opinion so let's hope they get it right (don't care if it sack Neeld or not as long as it turns out to be the right one)