Dappa Dan

Keep in mind also that one of the reasons Clint was taken so low in the draft was that he was quite badly injured at the end of 2005 (I think) If he was out for a long time, it's conceivable that once he returnded to training he started to develop, simply because of the fact he was working hard again. Is there a possibility that those weights lidted in the mag are up to date, and the ones on the site are old? It seems to match that kind of correlation. Apparently Jones has been losing weight. Buckley has nearly doubled in size. Newton looks like he's gone backwards. All fit correctly. BTW, which Johnson is +5kg? I hope it's Chris.

That's a concern about those injuries or non-contributors, of which Bate and Petterd are news to me. Oh, and welcome Flashdance36. 've been looking o change my name for months and I reckon I should've gotten in earlier on yours. Now that it's spoken for, any suggestions?

I like it. Obviously the question here is do we or don't we go with youth in each position. If we went with every young player in each spot, we would be wasting our time in the contest. But a few guys being given whole matches would be hugely beneficial... - Sylvia to spend a whole game on the pitch, not rotating off the bench. Dare I say it, in the guts? - If it wasn't for the fact that we need him to get fit in the pre-season, I'd say Hughes or Hayes for Pickett. - Ferguson instead of Holland, who would be too slow for the Hawks talls anyway. - Robertson to have the square all to himself while we rest the big man in matches 1 and 2 at least, or... - To share it with Juice or any of the other FF heir apparents. Maybe even Garland? - Like you said, PJ and Jamar to ruck all day long, assuming they're both fit. Or... - One of them to play permanent forward, rucking in the pockets, with Neaves sharing the ruck with the other, just to see how he goes.

Yeah. The idea of Jmac suddenly being skipper is ridiculous. What I meant to do was provoke some lateral thought. If they actually went through with it could you imagine the abuse they'd cop?

Interesting. I like what you've done there in applying the questions I asked of Junior to Brock, but I'm not sure we're covered an enormous amount of ground by doing so. Everyone in this club, and the other 15, know Brock has everything it takes to be a captain. The ONLY question marks anyone has raised in this thread, and others, and in other websites are around his ability to play 22 matches and his youth. Like you say if these 2 problems are the ONLY ones he has to contend with, I'm confident h's the man for the job. I think most MFC fans would be pleased to see Neitz go again next year and MAYBE one more after that assuming he plays as well as he did in 2006 and doesn't require any kind of surgery. After that it's Brock, Brock, Brock for captain, and that's fine too. The purpose of this thread is to discuss what would happen if Neita refused the captaincy to concentrate on his footy, thereby effectively creating 2 captains on the field in Neitz and his replacement. It's a sound plan, and one that the MFC might be pondering, what with the stalled announcement of the captaincy. The other element of this discussion was the assumption that they felt Brock was too young, and that he'll have to wait 2-5 years for the role. So just to clarify, no Brock and no Neitz, which could conceivably happen, then where do we look? I like your thinking surrounding Bruce. What we need to see from him is a FULL consistent season, and some physical fearlessness and he'll be in the box seat. Without some robustness, if he doesn't play well, (which he is wont to do from time to time) he is a vacuum on the field. In these scenarios it would almost be more damaging to see him as captain. With a physically threatening player, at least they have a latent presence, even if they're not getting their hands on the pill. I remember early in 2006 Neitz did exactly this. He couldn't get a hold of it, but he was still scaring the bejeezus out of some defenders, often 2 or more. Bruce, it appears, will never have this kind of string to his bow. Green is similar in that he needs one or two more elements before we can promote him. Consistency has found him only in 2006, and there is still some debate about that. Physically he has grown a presence, at least in 2006. As Rhino points out he played injured, and as Franky suggests he was hampered all year and still played solid, important footy through the midfield and in defence. Like Bruce he needs to be given the opportunity to add the last peices of the puzzle. ie. recall his kicking ability that was best in the AFL once upon a time, and begin to add even more physicality to his footy. The truth is (I'll cop it for this) I'm not prepared to back either, as both could easily fall flat on their faces. For all I know Green could return to selfish dazzling footy if and when his foot heals. Bruce similarly could try his hand at getting his own footy, and get crunched by some over-zealous tackle a la Guerra in round 3 2005, ending his captaincy aspirations. I love both players, and believe they will both be, at very least, in the leadership groups into their 30s, but I'm not sold yet, and to be honest I don't know that I'm confident that they'll get there. This is where McDonald comes in. He's a known entity, as consistent as ANY demon of the past 10 years, and is respected by all and sundry. But I know, I know, we've already refused this idea earlier. I think the main reason I'm off his bandwagon is that we are in a position to threaten for a flag in 2007 and 2008 and interim captains are not appointed at times like this. So the upshot of all this is that we are more or less forced to go with Neitz for another year, with a view to giving Brock, Green and Bruce a really solid look. And that's fine by me....

Not trying to bring up race or anything, and you make a fair association with Bate and Dunn being from Eastern, but can you imagine two whiter kids on the face of the earth? I'd suggest the brothers would be taking him under their wing, along with weetra.

I've been reading 180cm and 70kgs? Which one is correct?

Cam is a softly spoken (by comparison) footballer, a really nice guy (I went to school with him), is completely without malice, and isn't exactly a physical presence, hence the fact he was taken as a low draft pick. Now he's a sensational footballer, no-one doubts that, and as a good player he'll lead the club simply by how much say he has in the direction a game takes. But I can't see him lifting team-mates any other way. Can you really see Bruce barking instructions at a young player who didn't put his head over the ball? Like I say, anyone who plays that well, that consistantly leads the club BY EXAMPLE. But I don't reckon he'd inspire the club to great things by his acts of heroism or a stirring half-time speech, a la Gaddy Lyon. It's only an opinion, and I'm not in the inner sanctum. Perhaps he's the thinking man's leader? Perhaps he's more brains, not brawn? Maybe he'll have a quiet word instead of swearing and postulating all over the change-rooms? Who knows? At this stage at least, I reckon what Brock does on and off the field is impossible to ignore, and inspirational in almost every instance. I can see that my original post has largely been ignored, so I'll drop the McDonald for captain idea I posed, but keep it stored away just in case. Brock is my man, as I've said before. My only question is whether or not the captaincy will HARM his development. If it's of any interest to anyone, I know a guy who played with Brock when he was younger. The day we drafted him this guy made the effort to call me to say we'd just picked up our next captain. My first thought was "who are you?", but after clearing up his identity I realised how forthright he was trying to be. At the time I dismissed him as being a bit over-the-top about Brock. After all, how can you know a guy is going to be that good before seeing him play a game of AFL? What he said was that Brock's parents had been pushing him into this life since he was born, and that he's basically been bred as a leader. Interesting thing to recall now that he's 21 and pushing for the captaincy isn't it?

I'm sorry to bring it out again, but I had a thought today that I dismissed at first, but that has stayed with me. Let's assume for a minute, as discussed in previous posts, that Neita's handing back the captaincy and that Brock, while a definite leader, is too young at the moment. If the club was adamant that the captain HAD to come from one of the other recently announced leaders, then would it be ridiculous to suggest Junior could fit the bill? Like I said, I dismissed it at first for a few reasons: - Firstly he's only just come off his best season ever. Is he doomed only to go downhill from here? - He's not exactly talkitive when it comes to the media. Does he have the kind of personality that we want the public to associate with MFC? Who knows?! Does he even have a profile? Did he have one before his AA selection this year? - Is he damaging enough as a player? - Has he done enough in his career to DESERVE the honour? But after these, and a couple of other negative reasons, I started to reel off the positives: - There are worse players that have been skippers of their clubs. Hell, there ARE worse players that are skippers of their clubs. MUCH worse. - If what we're looking for is an interim captain, then perhaps age-wise he's perfect. His career will certainly at least begin to decline after 2 seasons, at which time it'll be only natural for him to hand it over. It may not be so easy to wrench the title from the hands of Green and Bruce who will be in their prime at around 28 in 2 years. The problem with this logic? If all you want is a captain who will retire in 2 years, you may as well leave it with Neita. - I reckon Green took a big step this year if what he wants to do is lead the club. His attitude, for all but one heartbeat, was top-notch. But I don't think I'm alone when I say he has a way to go yet before he strikes fear into opposition players and inspires his own mates. He has the talent, just needs some more runs on the board. - I don't rate Bruce as a captain. He's a leader by default, as he's such a good footballer, but I worry about his ability to inspire team-mates, and there's still a question on his physical courage in some camps. - Speaking of inspiration, I lost count of the amount of times, and the amount of different MFC players who spoke in glowing terms about McDonald this year, and other years for that matter. If what you want is a guy you can rally around, it would appear that behind the bigfella there are few who put their body on the line as often and as willingly as Junior. When it comes to onfield support, I'm confident James would have it from any of the 22 in red & blue, whether he asks for it or not. - If what we want is a captain to show Bartram, Bell, Bate, Sylvia, Jones and others how to go in hard year after year, then Junior is the ONLY candidate. Perhaps it's worth considering what awarding the captaincy to him means to young impressionable players. McDonald is a fantastic player to have in at the clinches, and teaching, via the example he sets, our young in-and-unders how to play. But just think what effect it would have on them if they go away thinking that all the publicity, interviews, and general palava that goes with being a leader counts for squat when compared to good old fashioned hard work. I can't think of a better way to send the message that what we all (the board) want you to do is just work hard for 10 years, a la Junior. I assume that they're inspired by him as things are, otherwise he wouldn't have been voted into the leadership group. What I'd love to see is their faith that the coaching staff and club management are of the same mind as they (the average player) are. If THAT happens, we're all on the same page, and we have what I think is called a team. I'm sure there are more negatives and positives to come from the likes of all of you, but this is a start. Like I said, the appointment of Junior as skipper is highly unlikely. But this question that's been on my mind all morning has, at least in a small way, changed the complexion of the captaincy debate for me. I hope it has for you too... Now turn to page 5 of your hymn books...

CAC1963, assuming it's him of course.

No need to shout... Another surprise from CAC. As others have suggested, I'm glad we went for a small speedy type, even if he is a bit on the short side. I was hoping we reclaimed Gianfagna as he seemed to fit the bill, but this selection isn't a bad one either. One thing to consider is that it's great to see the club giving all those highly rated young ruckmen a look at training. It'd be awesome to pick up a really good tall prospect who surprises everyone, but chances are if they disappointed other clubs in the past (Erickson, Fanning) they are only going to do the same with us. What's sensational is that we gave them a good hard look (albeit for only a few weeks), but didn't waste a spot on the rookie list with one of them. Can't wait to see Hayes play.

So that's last season and the bulk of 2007 that he'll be taking up space on our list. If he were a lesser player there would be those ready to put a red line through his name. Should he miss most or all of this season, will his spot be safe? I'm going with an emphatic yes, but playing devil's advocate at the same time. He's a super player and 2 years out hurts you no matter who you are. Will he be the same player in 2008?

My first respone was no no no. But since reading everyone's comments I've realised there is some method to this madness. I was sitting right behind him in the round 4 match vs the Swans where he did his shoulder, and I've gotta say he looked 10 times as comfortable. Perhaps given the chance to react, rather that create the plays helped him along. Then again, he was also looking pretty dangerous up forward too on that day, maybe he was just hitting his straps. What you want to see is the guy taking to a particular position in the way Dutchy did this year. Just to suddenly own a KP on the field and create, at least in the coach's mind, a home for him. Personally I'd prefer him to suddenly own CHF or FF, but since he's had years to do that, perhaps I'm being naive.

When the time comes, I can't wait to raise this again. I'm right behind Belly, while I agree he has his faults, I'm of the opinion his positives far out-weigh his negatives. Perhaps even the eternal optimist doesn't believe he can be a great player, but I certainly think he can play a few really good seasons, if uninjured.

You've gotta love CAC's balls in recruiting bottom age players in recent years. Not only is it perceived as a gamble, but the whole football world is crying out for teams to stop recruiting and playing kids so early in their careers. There's a perception that kids are damaged if they debut too early, as their egos, bodies and temperaments are very fragile at that age. CAC goes the other direction. He has faith that ND, and even Mark Williams won't play kids too early for their own good. Look at Bate and Dunn who were sheltered and given time to settle. Then look at Newton who has been kept off seniors at Sandy, possibly for the same reason. It seems to me CAC is conscious of the fact that it's dangerous to uproot kids from their home states and fling them headlong into the big-smoke. It seems, however, that the support around the club with families, patrons of MFC and even the senior players right down to Ooze are more than happy to take care of the younger demons and make sure they don't party too much and stay serious about their futures. Our success with our 2/3 (and possibly 3/3) bottom age draftees of 2004 is as encouraging a sign as I can think of for our future on-field success. Fingers crossed that it continues.

I'm no fashion expert, but I'd suggest that Byron's... excess, shall we say... will only be axacerbated by this outfit. I'm not sure I'd want our more rotund players looking as though they'd been on a good paddock over the break. Having said that, aside from that one criticism it does look awesome. I'd love to get a few ideas rolling around, I've always thought that, unlike some clubs (Hawthorn, Freo, Adelaide) the red and blue in its traditional form really lends itself to variations such as these. And I reckon the flaming "M" demon is a great symbol for the club. Whoever came up with that one should be recruited to design another away gurnsey, if they haven't already been recruited. PS, I appreciate the touch of making it Moloney's number.

Well done guys. Brought a tear to my eye seeing us dominate so well. Is there any chance of the rematch being played in Feb? I'll be back in Melbourne then, and relatively fit. I can also line up perhaps Before2Long and DreamTeam. All 3 of us would be handy at worst. It hurt to miss the day, I want to at least be there for the next one.

If we whinged to them about the fact that the ball is round, and that they're faster than us they'd come back and call us sooks. We played according to the way AFL players have been groomed to play for 100+ years, and while we were agressive, they did as much of the niggling stuff as us. For such an amazingly talented list in such a top-quality sport, these gaelic guys truly come off as amateurs when their manager has a big sookie sookie la la like he has. While I still think they're certainly a match for us, they've got a lot to learn about professionalism in the world of football, especially when you compare them to Soccer/AFL/League/Union/Gridiron, all of which share similarities with one-another. It's ok to criticise umpiring, but to come out and claim the game is in jeapordy helps no-one. Had they gotten up, he wouldn't be chucking a spakky like he did.

Didn't get a chance to watch the match, but Flash was named among the best for the series winning match. All those who saw the match, let the rest of us know how it went.

HA! Point taken Jaded.

I love these little chestnuts, good on you Elliot. If anyone sees any more players out and about don't be afraid of approaching them and finding stuff out. I always find they're as approachable as you can imagine a person being and willing to talk in detail about the club. After all, this kind of stuff is the only joy we get for the next few months...

Ta for that Hendo, and don't be a stranger. The dees have, for some years now, been a fairly good 4th quarter team. My mates all reckon that our ability to run out games is the one thing they fear from us. That is, even when their sides (Hawks, Blues, Roos etc.) are up against us, they're never sure they're going to get over the line. Even against the ridiculously fit Crows in round 3 we nearlt over-ran them. To be honest, one of the things I'm proudest about at MFC is that we get our fair share, maybe more than our fair share of victories by less than a kick. Over at Geelong (or was it the Roos, I can't remember. A blue and white team anyway) I heard that earlier this year they copped quite a bit of criticism for training their players explosively. Or in other words, high impact training without any endurance involved. I think it may have been around the time they somehow gave up a huge lead to the Eagles that this criticism surfaced. Now I'm not one to string a guy up before he's had a chance to prove what he's worth, but all this information on here certainly makes me nervous...

People didn't. Brock himself did. He went on holiday with Col after his first season, and after partying a little bit too hard, he came back heavier than he thought he would be. When conparing him to Jones all I said was that I heard Jones's team-mates paid him out for being chunky, not the general public.

I heard somewhere that the players pay him out for being a bit chubby, but then Brock got a hard time for the same thing at the start of his second season. I think weight's a factor if you're the wrong side of 28, like Stuart Dew, or Byron. Jones has 10 years before we need to be concerned. On the plus side, the ONLY thing he needs to develop body-wise is his endurance. He's not in the mould of, say, CJ who has needed to bulk up AND improve endurance. If you're going to post things to be worried about when considering the tendencies of individual demon-listed players, Jones's weight would be about the 296th thing I'd be worried about.

Moloney is "Beamer"