Dappa Dan

Each to their own.

Interesting. I've got a half a dozen posters I stick with. And obviously come here for first news and rumours... but leave it at that.

Every draft's a superdraft with Taylor. That's the one silver lining in this. We might get a few juicy picks as extras... so many players leaving. That's one thing I'm excited about. I felt like our depth and overall list the last few years was outstanding, but after looking at the Pies this year, I feel like we do actually have some pretty average dead wood lying around the place. 6 fresh new names, regardless of where he picks them, would be just the thing to cheer us up. Don't you just ignore chat's not involving you? I know I do.

Fair enough.

Right... so now I don't have "no idea" anymore? I could be right or wrong? As could you? That's where we got to? Like I keep telling you. Quote me when you have something to say. If you don't? Don't quote me...

I feel the same way... but it takes soooo long to find out sometimes. The Lever one we won't see how it went for years. The trade we made to GET Hogan... which looked genius at the time and in the last 4 years... now how does it look? I get what you mean though. You have to look at single trade periods, and the larger plan... That's the one thing that has me excited... The more we get our assets playing to their strengths, the better... it's why I never loved the Lever trade. I want Taylor picking players every draft... The guy is great. That at least we have again. Taylor where he should be.

Who quoted who? You don't like my views, then ignore. Or better yet block. I don't have any problem with you thinking things opposite to me. But then I didn't quote you, did I?

So stop quoting me? I've answered your questions over and over. I'll do it again, for what's this now the fourth time? 2 first round picks isn't enough for Hogan, no matter what they turn into in the future. Literally exactly the answer to everything you've spewed earlier, and repeated again. Jesus it's like banging your head against a brick wall. We could get a coleman medallist and a brownlow medallist with those picks... We could also get two busts. Picks aren't proven players. Jesse is. Or do I have to repeat that over and over as well? You still haven't apologised.

Yeah. That's fair enough to whack me. What I meant was that for many the jury is out on Spargo. A cop out, sure... But I think supporter opinion is often a trend worth monitoring. I like him, and think there's a role... I still worry about his size though, despite his good form. And I think TBH we don't have Harvey on our hands here. He could end up being a bit limited. That's all I'm saying. But yes, at the position we got him, it's solid value. Ah I see. Sorry my bad. I think you have to factor in Lever too though. Two ACLs. For many he's a made man. For me, the jury is still out. I have to see two good years of 22 games before I say "well done" on a trade. I suspect it'll turn out fine, but I also think that on the day of the trade, we paid overs for him, when it comes to what he'll produce. It's only MY opinion this, but I don't think he's going to be Rance. I know most will disagree... but I'm not entirely sold on him just yet. I want food on my plate. AAs, top 5 finishes in B and F. Scalps of superstar forwards... Tangible things like that.

Yeah. I would argue again though, it comes down to crystal balling. Many good footy-heads I know say petty is nothing, and Spargo is a good little goer but not premiership quality. So much more has to happen before any of these guys start to show payoff... As I type this it's quarter time in a GF and Stephenson has kicked 2. That's literally the level of player you'd need in his first 20 games to start saying it was a success.

That, at least, should be entertaining at first.

What the crap are you talking about? Do you know what forum you're on? The trade forum on a demons website, right? Have you seen the 100 pages of trade scuttlebbutt that have come before you got on here and started talking crap? Do you even know what the subject here is? And what... your'e gonna say the sheer amount of media furore we've seen over the last week is nothing, are you? Christ, the noise is even louder than when Scully left. I'll say it a THIRD time, since you seem to have a tough time understanding. 2 first rounders for Jesse ISN'T ENOUGH. You may agree, you may not. I don't care. I suspect no-one does. If you wanna stick your fingers in your ears and deny that we're not getting the same value as what he represents for us in the future playing 200 more games... or deny that 2 first rounders REGARDLESS of what we flip them for is unders.... then that's fine. At demonland, and other websites... what we do, you see, is we discuss and debate these things. Usually, experienced posters don't cop abuse from clowns who disagree with differing points of view. Usually when we discuss these things, we offer constructive criticism and examples of trends observed in the past. We don't make ourselves feel better by quoting people we disagree with with absolutely no background behind us. Just to make it clear yet again... I've been commenting for WEEKS now that 2 first rounders isn't enough. It's been on demonland and in the rumour mill that long. When you've followed the thread that long and engaged for that long, feel free to quote me again... With an apology. Otherwise, bother someone else.

I reckon it's 1st for May KK... mayeb also a third thrown in. Depending on how they see their draft. It's deep, so I imagine they want a volume of picks, not necessarily just high ones. Seems like we want to draft extensively too though. So many players leaving.

Jesus turn on your radio. It's two first rounders. I look forward to your apology. Champ.

I agree with that, I could have explained a bit better. Hogan won't go to Freo and win a flag. No siree. He'll have to wait at least 4-5 years while they build a side around him. I reckon he knows that and has accepted it. And I won't say Hogan is the most important player on our list... I have Oliver, Gawn and Viney there... with maybe Lever and Braysh after Hogan... I think though that to win a flag you need so much to go right. Hogan at demons was enough to make us a serious threat... Demons without Hogan, we drop back to the pack a bit. I'm not saying we can't find quality with what we're getting, but overall it's a sideways move at best. And SO MUCH is being hoped for with Weed and TMac. I think system wise, Hogan's engine and flexibility would scare the crap out of opposition teams and supporters. SO hard to coach against. As you know, I don't buy into this idea that he's been found out... and I worry Weed will be easier to get tape on in the coming few years. Also, let's say hypothetically Hogan stays for a 4 year deal. Takes him up to 28... he kicks 60 a year for those 4 years, finishes top 3 in the B and F.... What would his trade price be then? 2 first rounders sound about right? Yes... That's another reason I hate it. We're getting that deal now. And we don't even get the really juicy period of his career to hang our hat on. Hawks lost Buddy and still succeeded I know, but they lost him AFTER he won them premierships. But sure, I get your point. It's the correct thing to do to look to the future, and the club is only doing what it can. We got Lever cos of go home factor, and we lose a guy cos of go home factor... and somehow in that we lose pick 10 and a superdraft 17... and gain 9 and 10 in a superdraft year... all told that's not too shabby... But as I say. Hogan at demons is massive. And we're a worse side when he goes. At least that's my take. lol

Yeah, look. Like I said, it's not a disaster yet... Let's say it was pick 5 (6) and 10 (11) and 10 went for May and KK (pretty close IMO) and 5 got us an Oliver clone... Oliver > Hogan as far as I'm concerned... Then it's a good deal... We have Taylor and he got him as a bolter and he's now our best player... So it's not over yet. Also we're clearing out about 8 players, possibly in anticipation of a superdraft spree... so maybe there's cause for major optimism... in about 3-5 years. My problem is similar to what @Jadedsaid. You don't get better by trading out your best players. It really is that simple. This is the argument that's come about over the years. Look at every superstar player trade... There's one big name and then there's a bunch of spuds and picks that turn into nothing. You see it again and again... For every Judd example, there's plenty of other ones that go in the other direction. I think it's an accumulation of other small aspects... The fact that you get up for GFs by timing your list build right. Jesse is exactly what you want if you're threatening for the next 5-7 years. We've lost a HUGE part of the equation that we're almost certainly not going to be able to replace should Weed, Tmac or Preuss (????) go wrong. We've had the Kelly (Salem Tyson) thing (I know we would have taken Billings, I reckon that's spin).... We had Scully... And that's another great example of being shafted. I know Scully's not great, but we got Hogan at least partly because of that deal, and now after training HIM too, he walks... will we just end up using our serious draft capital to take talented kids and then wait 4-5 years for them to leave to a rich club and smash us every year? That's what's making GC a joke... Yeah. I wouldn't say I'm emotional. But [censored] off is about right. I'd be more excited if I was able to monitor the draft this year and have a better handle on what we're getting.

It's gonna be 2 first rounders. Partly because that's all they have, and partly because in this situation it's all they're likely to cough up. I've settled my mind on that. It's what's gonna happen so we're gonna have to deal with it.

9 and 10 (likely 10+11 or 11+12) is ridiculous... that's Lever type... Not nearly enough.

The club has shown themselves to know what they're doing with recent signings and trades... I'm really hoping this was all engineered years ago when Hogan was last up for trade. Hopefully they explained to Taylor to keep his eye on the business end of the draft as we could well be picking there... And he can pull another Oliver out... If that happens, we're back in the black.

I'll say it again. Look at the rest of the thread. I've been over this too many times. You wanna say other posters have no idea, check your facts first champ. Lever was uncontracted and within his RFA period when he was traded for two first rounders. Had we waited 12 months, we could have gotten this deal. The price, even while contracted, will be two first rounders... Look around at what's being reported, read what I have, then come back and apologise in a few weeks when the trade period finishes up. These first rounders we're getting will likely fall from 5 to 6 or 7 and from 10 to 11 or 12 AT BEST. We can't get another Hogan-quality KP forward that's ready to go in 2019 at that price unless Lynch has a change of heart and chooses us. Best case scenario is we somehow get a King brother, who takes 5 years to come good if he doens't do another ACL, if he's any good at all... Where are your 4 flags in a row if that happens? Hogan is a KNOWN quantity, KPF, one of the stars of the comp already and he's leaving us. You tell me what the price is that can help us in 2019... We're in a window now. Hogan leaving, and us not getting a player of his quality back that's in his prime NOW as Hogan is, is a big loss for us. Picks won't come through for a long time yet, and certainly not in 2019, if they do at all. This isn't devastating... But you don't improve as a club by training talent like Jesse and watching it leave after 4-5 years. This is exactly why clubs like GC never do anything. They've had star after star leave just as they're hitting their prime... You're kidding yourself if you're a demons supporter and assessing this trade as somehow "better" for us... We're getting bent over. Deal with it.

Because no-one cares about the points system. The only way it's relevant is if we're GWS or Sydney or a club that needs good academy players and we need to cash in for the bidding system. Some demons supporters (not necessarily you) are desperate to say we didn't get smashed in that deal, and the only evidence is the points... and the fact we have Taylor hitting home runs with later picks like Hunt, Fritta and Spargo (a 2nd/3rd round pick in his hands is worth much more)... The second 1st rounder is still a serious piece of draft capital, especially in a superdraft. And so far, because of Lever's knee, we've had almost no return on it. Don't get me wrong, I'm still confident it'll work out... But don't kid yoruself into thinking we somehow pulled the wool over the crows eyes because we did well this season and because the picks are worth more points. Noone gives a stuff about that.

Read the thread. I've been across it the whole time. Come back to me in 8 years when we see what he's like when his career comes full term. I stick with my assessment. He's been a star since his first game he's not gonna somehow turn crap as soon as he goes to Dockers.

Worst moment as a demons supporter in my lifetime. Two firsts isn't enough. 9 and 10 is a joke of a trade for a player of his quality. We have been smashed again. Worse than the Scully trade. I hate football.

Well done lad. Might be a reflection of the sheer amount of list turnover we're experiencing this season, but still, congratulations to the kid. Hopefully he can get even better from here on in.

That was the only thing execution wise I could find. The Thielen TD where just just pushed through... You can surely put that down to injury though. Gee Goff was absolutely superb. Two to Kupp and the Woods one were just great.