Dappa Dan

Yeah, look. Like I said, it's not a disaster yet... Let's say it was pick 5 (6) and 10 (11) and 10 went for May and KK (pretty close IMO) and 5 got us an Oliver clone... Oliver > Hogan as far as I'm concerned... Then it's a good deal... We have Taylor and he got him as a bolter and he's now our best player... So it's not over yet. Also we're clearing out about 8 players, possibly in anticipation of a superdraft spree... so maybe there's cause for major optimism... in about 3-5 years. My problem is similar to what @Jadedsaid. You don't get better by trading out your best players. It really is that simple. This is the argument that's come about over the years. Look at every superstar player trade... There's one big name and then there's a bunch of spuds and picks that turn into nothing. You see it again and again... For every Judd example, there's plenty of other ones that go in the other direction. I think it's an accumulation of other small aspects... The fact that you get up for GFs by timing your list build right. Jesse is exactly what you want if you're threatening for the next 5-7 years. We've lost a HUGE part of the equation that we're almost certainly not going to be able to replace should Weed, Tmac or Preuss (????) go wrong. We've had the Kelly (Salem Tyson) thing (I know we would have taken Billings, I reckon that's spin).... We had Scully... And that's another great example of being shafted. I know Scully's not great, but we got Hogan at least partly because of that deal, and now after training HIM too, he walks... will we just end up using our serious draft capital to take talented kids and then wait 4-5 years for them to leave to a rich club and smash us every year? That's what's making GC a joke... Yeah. I wouldn't say I'm emotional. But [censored] off is about right. I'd be more excited if I was able to monitor the draft this year and have a better handle on what we're getting.

It's gonna be 2 first rounders. Partly because that's all they have, and partly because in this situation it's all they're likely to cough up. I've settled my mind on that. It's what's gonna happen so we're gonna have to deal with it.

9 and 10 (likely 10+11 or 11+12) is ridiculous... that's Lever type... Not nearly enough.

The club has shown themselves to know what they're doing with recent signings and trades... I'm really hoping this was all engineered years ago when Hogan was last up for trade. Hopefully they explained to Taylor to keep his eye on the business end of the draft as we could well be picking there... And he can pull another Oliver out... If that happens, we're back in the black.

I'll say it again. Look at the rest of the thread. I've been over this too many times. You wanna say other posters have no idea, check your facts first champ. Lever was uncontracted and within his RFA period when he was traded for two first rounders. Had we waited 12 months, we could have gotten this deal. The price, even while contracted, will be two first rounders... Look around at what's being reported, read what I have, then come back and apologise in a few weeks when the trade period finishes up. These first rounders we're getting will likely fall from 5 to 6 or 7 and from 10 to 11 or 12 AT BEST. We can't get another Hogan-quality KP forward that's ready to go in 2019 at that price unless Lynch has a change of heart and chooses us. Best case scenario is we somehow get a King brother, who takes 5 years to come good if he doens't do another ACL, if he's any good at all... Where are your 4 flags in a row if that happens? Hogan is a KNOWN quantity, KPF, one of the stars of the comp already and he's leaving us. You tell me what the price is that can help us in 2019... We're in a window now. Hogan leaving, and us not getting a player of his quality back that's in his prime NOW as Hogan is, is a big loss for us. Picks won't come through for a long time yet, and certainly not in 2019, if they do at all. This isn't devastating... But you don't improve as a club by training talent like Jesse and watching it leave after 4-5 years. This is exactly why clubs like GC never do anything. They've had star after star leave just as they're hitting their prime... You're kidding yourself if you're a demons supporter and assessing this trade as somehow "better" for us... We're getting bent over. Deal with it.

Because no-one cares about the points system. The only way it's relevant is if we're GWS or Sydney or a club that needs good academy players and we need to cash in for the bidding system. Some demons supporters (not necessarily you) are desperate to say we didn't get smashed in that deal, and the only evidence is the points... and the fact we have Taylor hitting home runs with later picks like Hunt, Fritta and Spargo (a 2nd/3rd round pick in his hands is worth much more)... The second 1st rounder is still a serious piece of draft capital, especially in a superdraft. And so far, because of Lever's knee, we've had almost no return on it. Don't get me wrong, I'm still confident it'll work out... But don't kid yoruself into thinking we somehow pulled the wool over the crows eyes because we did well this season and because the picks are worth more points. Noone gives a stuff about that.

Read the thread. I've been across it the whole time. Come back to me in 8 years when we see what he's like when his career comes full term. I stick with my assessment. He's been a star since his first game he's not gonna somehow turn crap as soon as he goes to Dockers.

Worst moment as a demons supporter in my lifetime. Two firsts isn't enough. 9 and 10 is a joke of a trade for a player of his quality. We have been smashed again. Worse than the Scully trade. I hate football.

That was the only thing execution wise I could find. The Thielen TD where just just pushed through... You can surely put that down to injury though. Gee Goff was absolutely superb. Two to Kupp and the Woods one were just great.

Yeah that's probably the only obvious area. Maybe their OL? they certainly dominated tonight though.

That's exactly where we're at. A notch or two ahead of all 31 other teams...

Can't get over Goff... 17 less attempts than his oppo QB, and still got 43 more yards... That was a cracker of a game. Probably the biggest of the season so far.

I tell you what @Gorgoroth... That's the best team in football right there. And TBH, I think in my time watching NFL it has a shot at being the best I've seen.

He's always seemed a little nervy in front of a camera... You know he's gonna be swarmed by them...

Imagine if he didn't attend...

Goff making a play for MVP this season.

Goodness gracious. We're in for a classic here. Two great Ds who have been smashed so far. Some guy called Aldrick Robinson who's been there about a week with 2 TDs... All happening.

Jeeeeeezus. Kupp.

Gee they looked good. That's a helluva D they're playing against too.

Peters playing...

Oh come ooooooon.... You can't do that! lol

I noticed someone else quoted this, so I went back to use it... I keep coming back to this same thought...That the finals success, the team kicking out the coaches and running meetings with just themselves, all this... has left Jesse feeling like just another cog in this team and not its great spearhead as he's been for the last 4 years. Has he been waiting for an opening to sneak back to Perth? Maybe. I think my main thought though is that the club had up until this week shown no interest in trading him whatsoever. They've loved him and nurtured him all the way through and bent over backwards to accommodate him. And now, with his injury and non-involvement in the first success the club's seen in a long time, he suddenly baulks? A big part of me thinks if that's all it takes, then perhaps he's not made of the stern stuff we all hoped he would be? He's a great player and I want to keep him... but only if he buys in. And I mean REALLY buys in. Otherwise, what do we really have?

Gee that's beautifully written. Have to say though, as pretty as that was to read, the sentiment is wildly inaccurate. No amount of glorious words about his so-called loyalty can distract from what happens if he moves. In terms of sticking with the club, he's hardly Nathan Jones... He took a 2 year deal in his last contract, and has trotted out the same media line as Scully did before he left. I hope you're right though of course.

I suspect you're right there. And yeah, this is a club who's only dominant period stemmed from the great Pav. They know they can sell memberships with the Hulk. He will be adored forever after 200 games with them. If he were to go there, their next 5-10 years look completely different. At MFC he's not even in our 3 most important (Gawn, Oliver, Tmac, Viney, Lever). If you want to see some extreme examples of the value of draft picks, consider the tale of RG3 in the NFL. The Redskins traded their first round pick in three successive drafts... AND a second rounder. And what for? To move from pick 5 overall to pick 2. They literally traded all that to move up 3 spots to get their guy. NFL is different obviously, but where they're way ahead of us is they make huge blockbuster deals to get a franchise player. They'd find a first and second round pick trade quaint... In our defence, MOST people here are rating him. It's a small vocal minority that want everyone to think he's average. I'm confident the demons rate him as high as we do though.

- The greater football public, I think if we genuinely ran a poll, would have Curnow ahead based purely on his pack marking. And would take Daniher as he's just so damn big. Jesse is FAR more accurate. 150+ goals in 70 games vs Daniher's 180 in 100 games. Just for giggles let's throw in Curnow... 59 goals form 47 games. Hogan has essentially played one more seasons worth of games and kicked almost 100 more goals then him. You could (and should) argue that Hogan has better delivery, but we were a bad side when he played his first 50 games. In any case, I don't think the GP would put them ahead of Hogan since they're usually a what-have-you-done-for-me-lately crowd... In any case statistically he's well ahead. - Yeah that's a fair knock. But also a fair knock on just about every forward who's ever played. They feast against poor sides, and don't play as well against good ones. You can't argue with his goals-per-game average, and the fact he's been consistent from the beginning. Any time you're up the front of a Coleman, regardless of oppo, you deserve the adulation... Guys like Fev should be respected more because of this. - OK now you're putting words in my mouth. I never said he was "a certainty to be a Carey-esque superstar." Carey's on his own. But within any 5 year period you always have 3-5 big-time forwards who carve it up. The Brown/Riewoldt period was a classic. Hogan is that level of player. Not only that but I think he's in a mini-golden age. There's SO many great KP forwards around right now. And yeah, as I said earlier, he's a sub-25 year old KPF. There's a reason Nicky Dal's top-10 list he did a few days ago was ridiculous. Right now you have to say Riewoldt's the best KP forward in the game. Just won the Coleman... But he turns 30 in a month. If in some parallel universe he was to be traded, he wouldn't get anywhere near what Jesse would in a trade as trades are all about future. That, I think, is what you're overlooking. In a straight up trade for 2019 production... yes... most top tier players are worth a first and change. But when you're in your early 20s in a difficult to find/difficult to train/difficult to draft position like what Jesse plays, you start seeing 2+ first rounders. You just can't argue he's only worth a first and second when Lever went for two firsts. Gibbs too. That's insanity. The market rate for what Jesse is has to be CONSIDERABLY more than what Gibbs got. Gibbs will only likely play 3-4 more seasons. Jesse has 8, maybe 10 more. 2 firsts is unders. Good stuff though. Love the back and forth.