wisedog

We followed the Hardwick method after the 2007 season.

I think the experience of older players was severly undervalued, but the reality is, even if Melbourne did hold on to those players most would be 34+ now anyway. The reason there's such a dearth of leadership at the moment is because of the failure to develop players from the 2000 - 2006 drafts. Outside Jones, Rivers, Garland, Davey and Jamar - there is really no one who's been able to cement a long term place in this side. I say develeop, because I don't believe a club could be so unlucky as to make so many draft blunders over the last 11 years. I'm sure poor recuiting is partly responsible, but I think the real problem lies in the culture of the club and the way our young players have been developed. We can only hope that we finally have the right people in place to turn this around.

I didn't have high expectations for this season, but I still expected Neeld to have some kind of positive influence. Yes, it looks a diabolical list at the moment, but it's still largely a list that won 8 games in 2010 (including a 73 point annhilation of Sydney and a draw against the eventual premiers). In 2011, they also won 8 games and drew against Sydney. Supposedly, if you 'play the kids' you can fast track the development of young players, but the concerning thing is, we've seen more players stagnate or go backwards than improve. I'm not putting this all on Neeld, because in my opinion the rot set in midway through 2011. The fact is, the club has had nearly 6 years to rebuild this list. Players drafted in the 2007 draft are now 23 years old. Look at what Sydney, Adelaide and even North Melbourne have achieved in the same time frame, and without the same opportunities. Unfortunately, Melbourne are still as bad as they ever have been. Having said all that, Neeld deserves to see out his contract. Under Bailey, it took the players a good 18 months to adapt to a new gameplan, so I think we should probably expect the same.

To be honest, I think it probably improves our position. The further he slides, the less inclined GWS and GC will be to risk losing a player like Whitfield or Grundy.

I think we're playing Richmond at close to the perfect time - they've lost to Freo at home, staggered over the line against GWS and been overrun by Adelaide. It's just a shame we have to face them without Clark. Richmond are the modern day rivals and we've been trading blows ever since McHamon kicked that goal after the siren. I really hope we can win this.

I actually think Richmond are in a bit of a slump. In their last three games they've lost to Fremantle at home, beaten GWS by just 12 points, and were overrun by Adelaide. Even without Clark, I think we've improved a lot since our round 3 drubbing. I'm not saying we're going to win, but I give us a fair chance. We're still $5.50 on Sportsbet, which I think is rediculous. EDIT: Melbourne $5.00 now.

Before we write off a few of our recent recuits, it should be remembered that Thompson had quite a slow start to his career. His frist 3 years at Melbourne were pretty unremarkable - it wasn't until 2004 that he really began to impose himself on the game. For the record, I remember telling a friend back in 2004 that Thompson would win a brownlow one day. He dismissed him as a "fringe player".

It reminds me of Melbourne's losses to Carlton in 2006 when they were last. Ultimately cost us a place in the top 4, I hope this loss has similar consequences for Essendon.

If 2009 taught me anything, it's that the structures and culture of a club is far more important than priority picks. Look at Adelaide and Sydney; their lists have changed even more than ours since 2007, and yet they're rising up the ladder again after brief stints outside the finals. It can't just be bad luck that none of our first round picks have met their potential (Frawley and Jones being the exception), nor is it just good luck that Sydney continue to turn discards from other clubs into very useful players. With the recuitment of Neeld, Craig and Mission, I believe we've taken the first step. I only hope that these are the right people to rebuild this club and see us through a period of long term success.

I think it's a good system, it's just a shame we're not a bit higher on the ladder to make the most of it. Hopefully we can leapfrog a few teams along the way so we can say we got him for a steal.

The report on the AFL website described it as a "fair bump"... http://www.afl.com.a...71/default.aspx

Exactly - Since 2007, the Swan's list has changed more than Melbourne's and yet they've only missed the finals once since 2002. Incredible. Unfortunately, Melbourne crashed on and off the field simultaneously, a huge reset button was pushed and here we are now.

You really get as much value from your MCC membership as you want to. Living in Ballarat, I don't get down as often as I'd like, but I make a point of going to the Grand Final each year. What I like most about the MCC is the sense of history and atmosphere. I like being able to move around and look over all the old memorabilia or spend a bit of time in one of the bars. On another note - has anyone been to the new Terrace Cafe on level 2? There used to be a really affordable little cafe there. At half time during the Richmond game, I waited in line for about 15 minutes and all I could afford was some little baguette thing. Gourmet pies were $18! Disappointed to see the other place go.

I'm not happy we passed over Rockliff either... (I'd probably still take Watts)

Jared Rivers Brent Moloney Colin Garland James Frawley Brad Green Clint Bartram Mark Jamar Colin Sylvia Nathan Jones Ricky Petterd Aaron Davey Mathew Bate Lynden Dunn These are the players that remain on our list from the Daniher era. In fairness, he at least left us with a solid young defence. Attempts were made to recuit forwards to replace Robertson and Neitz (Bate, Dunn, Newton, Molan and Miller) but none of them ever came on. Here's our full list in 2007.

But I don't think Grimes' pace was excessive - Jackson absorbed the tackle and instead of dropping to the ground he turned his weight on to Grimes. I doubt this was an act of self-preservation, but you may see it differently.

That's how I saw it - but it happened too quickly to prove any malicious intent. I think he was frustrated to be caught in the tackle and dropped his weight on Grimes, but I doubt he meant to land on his head.

Well they were a pretty miserable lot under Pagan. From memory he attempted to top up the list with mature-agers and they had a brief resurgance in 2004 before dramatically falling away. Much like Melbourne, in the end they had no other option but to rebuild. The 'swagger' seemed to return when Pratt, Swann and Judd came on the scene. I had actually forgotten just how long Carlton were down for. It seems a list overhaul will keep you down for a good 5-7 years. 2002 - 16th 2003 - 15th 2004 - 11th 2005 - 16th 2006 - 16th 2007 - 15th 2008 - 11th 2009 - 7th Admittedly, Carlton lost their top selections in 2002, but I think we can take heart from Carlton's improvement after years in the wilderness.

I'm of the opinion that our side desperately needs someone to do what Judd did for Carlton in 2008 - someone with skill and leadership in equal measure. Goddard definitely fits the bill, but at nearly 27, he may only give us 3 good seasons. It would definitely be worth considering, but the price may just be too high - especially if the Saints demand both compensation picks in return. Still, it would be a nice feeling going into 2013 armed with Goddard and Viney.

Well, it's clear that list rebuilding really isn't the exact science some thought it would be - and I'm almost glad about that. How boring would it be, if we had these ongoing cycles where clubs would plan for their '5 years down the bottom', sacking club stalwarts and plundering as many draft picks along the way. It's as if we were treating the club like a computer game: If we spend X amount of years down the bottom of the ladder and get x amount of games into these players, we can expect our first premiership in 2015. In the struggle between business and club, I think we leaned too far towards business - notions of club loyalty, pride and leaderhip were all disregarded. To assume any player could fill the void left by McDonald and that the players wouldn't be affected by his departure was also symptomatic of our thinking. The players aren't robots, they're boys and has been mentioned in other threads, we've basically put ourselves in the same position as Gold Coast and GWS. Still, maybe in 2020 we'll have 4 more premiership cups in the cabinet and it will all have been worth it. Things are just a bit too uncertain at the moment.

I’ve always found it funny that we were trading blows with Geelong in 2005 and 2006 – even beating them at Skilled Stadium. At the start of 2007, Melbourne was touted as the best side in Victoria and Thompson was one bad season away from losing his job. The rest is history.

Definitely. We now need someone to do what Judd did for Carlton in 2008 and what Ablett is doing for the Gold Coast. They are champion players, but they are also great leaders. I would strongly consider using both compensation picks to land a top 20 midfielder. I remember when players came to Melbourne, they would talk about being struck by the presence of players like Neitz and Robertson. McDonald was the last of that breed, we have no one with that aura anymore.

Agreed.

I wasn't comparing us to an EPL minnow side, I was comparing the definition of success between the AFL and EPL and the way a season is valued. Are there any other sporting codes where supporters will willingly sacrifice 5 years in order to improve their chances of achieving ultimate success? I’m not sure... Either way, since priority picks have been taken off the table – I doubt we’ll ever see a side rebuild its list as pragmatically and swiftly as we did from 2007 to 2010.

Well it's hard to gauge success solely by premierships, when there's only one trophy worth winning. By that measure, 17 clubs will ultimately fail each year. But this is the reason we chose to rebuild our list so dramatically, and why a champion like McDonald was sacked. The club and its supporters were prepared to endure 5+ years of pain in order to give ourselves the best opportunity to win a premiership. The reason supporters are so disheartened at the moment is because the plan doesn't appear to be working - after 5 years, the 100 point drubbings continue as our prized recruits are outshined by a player off the rookie list. When I think about this mindset, I spare a thought for the minnows in the English Premier League. How do they value a season, knowing that every trophy will almost certainly be taken out by the big 4? Is it a success just to avoid relegation or do they just savour each victory along the way? Melbourne has given us some wonderful games, stories and moments over the years - are they all worthless without the validation of a premiership? Of course not. I'd be lying if I said I didn't have my concerns. We've gone backwards since 2010 and I can't see where the improvement is coming from. I don't know how much of a factor the loss of James McDonald has been, but it's plainly obvious that importance of true leadership was grossly undervalued. To assume that any player could easily take on the mantle and set the standard for the team was a huge mistake.