youami

This is Phil Read/Aaron Davey all over again. I think in the 2003 PSD/Rookie draft Melbourne opted for Phil Read instead of Aaron Davey. Fortunately we were lucky enough to snare Davey with the 3rd pick in the rookie draft. perhaps CAC knew he'd slip. But how can you categorically know? Read is gone and Davey has become a household name. Kangars and Davey are completely different players at the time of being drafted, but if we think Kangars is better, but hope that he slips to the rookie draft, thats too risky. Get him while you can. As an aside, I'm sure the 39th player on our list was a decision between mcnamara and gaertner. CAC must have decided only one 17 year old, they then considered well perhaps we should get two at the last pick, but decided no lets stick to the original plan, the younger they are the riskier the pick i suppose.

i agree valenti and stef martin are almost certainties to be drafted by melbourne whether it be through the national, pre season or rookie draft. Valenti to me seems very much an adam fisher type who never quite made it but absolutely dominated at vfl level. I hope valenti takes the next step, id say the slight difference between the two would be valenti's ability around goals, has a touch of class which perhaps fisher didnt. stef martin has a basketball background and only made the transition i think last year, has huge scope for improvement. looks so young and is i guess, but id love the dees to snaffle him in the rookie draft, but others may get in sooner. it would be a tragedy to lose one of these blokes to another afl team. martyn at pick 69 and valenti at 53. plus three picks in the top 21. then we can swoop in the pre season. id be happy with that outcome

maybe bailey sees paul johnson as a backman in waiting. he has explosive speed for a big man and has a big body. big nicho started as a ruckman before finding his niche as a full back with mixed success. id love to see him move back and take the quick leading forwards. he'll need time to develop though, you dont learn how to play full back over night.

the number 20 pick somehow got to west coast, and is sam butler. if you do dreamteam pick this bloke up next year he is a possession machine but has been injured for the last few years. butler will be a very very good player and there is room in the eagles midfield now. regarding what id prefer, we keep getting an extra year out of big ben holland. however, im of the opinion that any trade that doesnt result in a premiership is a wasted trade.

now we have picks 4, 14, 21, 53, 69 and 3 in the PSD. 6 picks assuming Bode has been promoted, that leaves us with 5 spots on the list, plus danny hughes as rookie my thoughts are one of Holland, Warnock, or Ferguson will be shown the door to accomodate essentially pick 69. My pick is Ferguson to be the last one delisted. What will happen to Hughes? He has been on the rookie list now for two years and either has to be delisted or promoted.

I heard the same interview and thought he said enough without saying anything as to the reason(s) TJ is no longer at Melbourne, very diplomatic and a very good interview under the circumstances. He may have a future in politics.

good point

my source was absolutely correct. not many people come back and gloat about the source being correct, until now. enjoy the read. http://demonland.nozzs.org/forum/index.php...amp;#entry99607

Take it easy Premiers 08. Who is going to be premiers? The MCC or MFC? Id suggest next year the MCC probably has a better chance than the MFC, but I'm a MFC supporter so I'll be cheering them on to beat the more fancied MCC. Anyway the rumour was aired on 3AW this morning. From all reports Beverly O'Connor made a remark saying she is keen to become the AFL's first ever female president. It would be no different to our current Chairman in that it would be a PR type chairman. I'd certainly support any move Bev made at becoming the first female president of our club. She is a leftover from the Gutnick days and has many rivals on the board. We havent exactly propelled far forward from 2000 both on and off the field. So why not give Bev a try.

id suggest from the reports coming through this info is nothing new all parties involved.

i wrote this the day bailey was announced as coach (and just quietly, have been proven correct on all reports), now this same source confirmed that Johnstone is very childish, almost to the point where they have to be careful when he is near powerpoints. This source stated that Daniher believed Johnstone was harder to deal with than a child. Difficult to understand why Daniher kept him for so long. This has nothing to do with talent people. It's about creating successful cultures. Dont be surprised to see him traded for what may seem a rip off, that's not from my source but my take on it. QUOTE(youami @ Aug 31 2007, 05:01 PM) From a very good source (i know sounds very very dodge, but check my history ive never made claims before). apparently all members in the selection panel nominated two people, every person nominated bailey, and were very impressed with the way he presented himself, being very clear and direct. Bailey - does not believe in trade week (despite port having 9 recycled players in their premiership team), but has sounded out that Travis Johnstone is on the chopping block. not media savvy (happy with that) and will find it difficult to sell the club in the same manner as daniher (ultimately results sell the club) sheedy - was pick number 2 of the five, however the panel had concerns about his age and no new ideas hardwick - very keen on hardwick, however fumbled his way through the interview at times, they think he will be a very good coach in a few years, but weren't willing to take a risk on him connolly - not enough insight - no new ideas unlike bailey and hardwick riley - just part of the process. bond - no good on the psych testing in other news apparently bailey and libba were the only two who applied for the job, the others were approached by the melbourne football club. also longmire applied for the job after the first part of the process was complete, but could not be considered as he missed the first part. what i take from this, im very happy we have appointed someone who is not about selling the club, someone who was appointed because the club feels he can win us games. PS - i have written this not to be ridiculed about my source, if you are coming on here to bad mouth this just because of the source im not interested. just ignore this if you have a problem with my source.

any other news reported on SEN?

Where are people getting updated trade news?

i was at one game i think against port melbourne where he really looked good, almost jared riversesque. is suited to the backline. unfortunately he seemed to drop off throughout the remainder of the season. I spoke to Mick Malthouse at a willytown v sandi game and he said the pies had a really good look at him. not sure where he was taken in relation to goldsack but id suggest for mick it was one or the other. i think next year he will dominate vfl playing CHB. he wont take the big hits and needs to be stronger in the contest, perhaps with a pre season in the gym he may take more confidence into next year. his real strength is like rivers for me is his ability to read the play. but again needs to be much stronger in the contest.

This is an old post of craig camerons from over a year ago, im sure we all appreciate any inside info CAC provides us, i have been critical but this gives us a fair fact based piece to judge his performance. In this CAC readily acknowledges that we have not recruited any stars, and reveals the flaws in the statistics, ill shut up now, an interesting read, it'd be good if he'd come back with an update of these figures. As a self assessment tool the club produces a draft analysis, club by club, each year based on statistical success rates. A success is considered a player drafted who plays 50 AFL games. Injuries are not taken into account. We have just finished the 1997 to 2003 analysis. It is reasonabe to make some assumptions on players taken in the 2003 National draft at this time. Not so for 2004 and 2005. I'm happy to produce them in this forum as it is public domain information anyway. The list below shows the AFL average as a comparison to MFC performance. AFL ave MFC Top 10 71.4% 75% 1st Round(outside top 10) 52.7% 50% 2nd Round 40.2% 66.7% 3rd Round 34% 37.5% 60+ 26.2% 40% Overall National Draft 49.7% 59.4% Pre Season 18.2% 30% What do the figures tell us? In an analytical sense they say that the MFC drafting record is good. As raised by a number on this thread our fisrt round percentage needs to improve. We sit at 50% for first round selections outside the top 10. The AFL average is 52.4%. We obviously would like to be above the average. They also tell us that the talent pool is too small. There is a dramatic drop off outside the top 10. What the figures don't tell us is how good the players end up being. Aaron Fiora under this analysis is considered a success. However, his opportunity cost is high. Pavlich, Murphy, Corey were selected after him. Trav's tenet that we need to find a star holds true. The closeness of all club's figures, outside a couple of glaring exceptions that I won't post, shows that it is stars that differentiate teams not just raw draft numbers. What isn't a truism though is that the MFC is poor in selecting first rounders. The figures don't bear this out. Only 1 in 2 of all players selected in the first round after pick 10 go on to play 50 AFL games. When assessing draft performance opportunity cost is the best measurement. It is impossible to compare players across drafts. Not all No. 3 selections will be as good as Chris Judd. Not all No. 1's will be Nick Riewoldt. Not all No. 26's will be Jared Rivers.

I wholeheartedly agree, the best post I've read. Maybe because I agree.

Amen to that hannibal. I agree you can't buy experience and hopefully Cameron has learnt from his mistakes. It's to early to judge the players from the second 5 year period at this stage, but the ones from the 1997-2001 were not up to scratch. All your points are brilliantly made. Can i just say, an AA selection is not the be all and end all, ive said that before. But it is the best we have in external judgement. A melb B&F is not recognised by anyone outside the club, a best clubman also etc. Ablett, Carey, Dunstall didnt win brownlows, are they not star players absolutely not, did they make AA, absolutely and more than once. Successful clubs need superstars, I believe the 1991 Hawthorn premiership team had none but I'm not 100% sure (that ones for you redraft molan). Premierships is what we want, no player, draft pick, coach or recruitment officer has brought us that, yet! But we will not challenge for a flag until we discover at least 4-5 superstars, and have the Bruce's, Johnstones, Greens as the 12th, 13th, 14th players picked, rather than how it is currently, too much is expected of players that just arent up to it. Good to have you on board redraft molan. Nothing wrong with healthy debate.

Bishop was recruited from Box Hill, so he must have made a detour via Port Adelaide to get from Junction Oval to home. But it is difficult to argue with the facts as you may well see. I dont expect Cameron to get every draft pick right, no one has in the past, but his record is not what everybody goes on about on this forum.

You've just conceded the argument redraft molan. Id suggest a few reasons for the difference one is funding, we just dont have the money to compete player development and recruitment. the second is we havent brought any superstar players from 1997-2002. I just thought of two other trades which may lessen my point but anyway T.Longmuir went to Freo for pick 18 (brad green) Jeff White for pick 2 (brad ottens) Will anyone remember who Geelong beat in the grand final in 20 years time, let alone the preliminary final, they will remember though that Geelong won. Cannot believe more people do not realise how poorly our club was managed from 1997-2001 (5 years), and it's still to early to judge from 02 looks ok if rivers gets fit and bell continues good form, but 03 is still to early to judge. One other thing moorcroft probably played more games for melbourne than hunter, smith, molan, rogers and clarke combined. he was one of the good ones of that batch.

Na mate im with you. All these blokes have their heads in the clouds. Absolutely pathetic, do you think the Geelong message board would have a post about Daniel Bell getting best on ground for one game? It's this attitude of celebrating mediocrity that has got us to 14th on the ladder. Why did we come 14th? Because we got injuries or because we've got no superstar players? I say both. Loved that trade table - Simmonds for Ellis Heffernan for pick 10 Holland for pick 20 Woewodin for pick 14 - we got one right Jolly for Dunn - jury still out Moloney for Thompson - Not much they could do Armstrong delisted wins premiership, not a star but would still get a game at Melb Bishop (premiership player) for Powell (delisted by Melbourne - played one good year) Byron Pickett (29 games) for pick 28 P.Johnson for pick 29 - jury is still out Bizzell for Grgic and pick 17 (in the superdraft of 2001 - James Kelly, soon to be premiership player) Bassett for Brent Williams and Nick Pesch - not much they could do as bassett wanted to go home but brent who? and nick who? are there more, i recall nick carter getting a run at Melbourne at one stage too. Are there any more master strokes that we did at trade time? Both good and bad? We need to establish where we have gone wrong in the past to go forward redraft molan. Let's hope Dean Bailey brings with him the success that Port have enjoyed via draft picks and trades.

And what happened to Pagan?

We should rename this site to "Dreamland" for the likes of redraft molan. You must have been alive the last time we won a premiership, such is your defence of Daniher, the coach who didnt have a 'second or third plan'. Do you know that as fact? Or did you read that in a newspaper article and you quote it to sound as if you know something about football? Your knowledge of our 'achievements' is astounding, if losing the first week of finals is an achievement then your acceptance of mediocrity is the reason why we finished 14th in 2007. If Shane Woewodin winning a brownlow medal is your lasting legacy at a football club then congrats. Daniher did get his charges to a GF in 2000, but why did we go backwards from there? Our team was young and stayed relatively the same for the following 7 years. What went/continues to go wrong? Last time i checked this whole website is based on opinion, and it is my opinion that you need good players to win premierships. Im not saying that AA selection guarantees that you are a good player, however, players that consistently get picked qualify as superstars of the game. The fact is Daniher/Cameron have brought to our club one AA rep who made it once. Right now Melbourne have no superstar players, and nor have they during any time in Daniher/Cameron's time. Whether it's their fault, I don't know, but if it's not can we have reasons, not Paul Gardner PR garbage that we are constantly fed. To give a balanced view to this opinion, McLean may be a very good player, Sylvia too, Rivers is a very good player, Jones will be very good, Petterd looks very good, Bate and Newton are others but the difference between very good and superstar for all those players and more, is the difference between a premiership and a loss first week of finals. Perhaps we'll revisit this and thank Cameron and Daniher for their legacy but from results so far, I'll hold my tongue. We all want a premiership so take it easy redraft molan, if reading demonland makes you physically ill, I apologise but dont take back a word of it, if only for healthy debate.

I agree a team is important but the team game can get you only so far, perhaps prelim finals (think Kangas and Pies this year). You need superstars, Geelong (a bit premature but good for point making), West Coast, Sydney (possible exception, but had/have goodes, hall, okeefe, oloughlin, kirk), Port Power, Brisbane, Essendon, Kangas. How many AA's were in each team? Please spare me the jargon about making more finals than not. We could put another spin on that fact. We won 1 final in 5 years or 2 finals in 7 years. Our most successful years were 1998 and 2000, perhaps due to the Balme legacy, or the Gutnick approach. This is not a pro Balme thread though. From 2001 onwards we have won 2 finals. We won as many finals as Carlton in 2004-05. This is not supposed to be an attack, this is supposed to be supported by fact. Let's also remember that Melbourne prefered Phil Read in the Pre-season draft to Aaron Davey. Davey would have gone to the Kangaroos had Shane Harvey (Brent's) brother not been available. He was overlooked in the National and pre-season draft. We got him almost through default. If J.Mac was recruited by CAC well add him to the list, which now equals 2. However if he was elevated from the rookie list in 1997, it would have meant he had to be drafted in 1996. I wasnt aware that CAC was around back then, but I'm happy to be proven wrong. All I want is for Melbourne to be successful, and in the 25 years that I've been kicking they havent, and the Daniher/Cameron group has been in charge for 10 of them.

alright lets expand it to norm smith medal, premiership medal, coleman medal, brownlow medal (woewodin was balme's) anything of any significance. Jeff White yes an AA selection. Ill accept that. agree AA selection is not the be all and end all, however good players whether it be one year or consistently make AA. J.Brown has not made AA for most part due to injuries rather than form, and has the guernsey now anyway. 1 out of say 50 players coming in, what kind of a record is that?

I know CAC reads this forum and is welcome to defend himself, however if we look purely at results lets determine how successful the Cameron/Daniher regime has been at bringing in players; drafted, rookied and traded. I’m not 100% sure, but have they produced an All-Australian player? The only players I can think of that have made AA, is Neitz, Yze, Farmer and McDonald (??) and they were all leftovers from the Balme regime. When you look at 2001, Geelong produced 3 AA’s in one year, in Bartel, S.Johnson and G.Ablett (F/S). I’m not sure who makes the decision come draft time, but really our output to this date has been nothing short of deplorable. Please someone out there, name a player from the Cameron/Daniher combo that has been recognised by anyone outside our own club (Rivers winning the Rising Star Award is the only thing I remember). How much longer will we be talking up our ‘future stars’ that never arrive? PS, Im not talking about players that are to young to be judged ie jones, bartram, petterd, frawley. But players who have played for say 4 years or more.