youami

Finally a voice of reason. Fair enough point, but in hindsight that strategy was wrong because we didnt win a premiership, just like in hindsight Hawthorn's model was right, and Geelong's etc. I hope one day we, Melbourne, can look back in hindsight and say Bailey was right, Jim Stynes was right, Barry Prendergast was right and Cameron Schwabb was right. I have faith that we will.

Having said that, the discussion is about the decisions made by CAC since joining Richmond, and how it is comparable to the philosophy he employed at Demons. Agreed his recruiting of individual players has been done to death, the discussion should be about his inability to move players on when their time was up, and his love of picking up recycled players.

His best pick will be Colin Garland.

not sure i was gloating at all. my point is im glad he's not our problem any more. no where did i say we're going to beat them, or win a premiership, or say we have the answers, i do agree with what melbourne are trying to do though. also the points i queried are the decisions he did have control over, for instance, he could have cut an additional 4 players. pettifer and oakley nicholls seriously those two are no brainers. also the recruits that he got this year are comparable to what he did at melbourne recruiting delisted players from other clubs. that's the problem with these forums, you say A, and others say you B, C, D, E and F. read the original post people. most clubs cut their lists very hard this year, due to Gold Coast coming in, Richmond chose not to.

regarding mistakes What i was saying is that in 2008 when we were crap, the players making errors during the game were our young blokes, who could learn and improve, for Richmond the players making mistakes last night were their veterans, Simmonds (dropped about 4 marks), Bowden (had very little impact and dropped a sitter int eh forward pocket) and N.Brown (applying absolutely no pressure throughout the whole game when his team didnt have the ball), players that cant really improve, and are limited in how much better they can get. nothing about them being mistakes, but while im on it, yeah Cameron did recruit Simmonds and a great choice, however he then traded him and in a 3 way trade we got Craig Ellis. So yeah, thanks for reinforcing my point further. Trading players to suit other clubs.

Correct, he didnt recruit, all the more reason to cut them. They are going nowhere doing nothing, why keep them on the list, he kept players on melbourne's list for years too long. Hoping they'd come good, whilst Hawks made tough calls on players like Steven Greene, Nathan Thompson, Jonathon Hay, Jade Rawlings etc. So Cameron, despite being director of football/recruiting and list management, could make no calls on any of the players?? Thomson was a trade with Port, Hislop was taken in the draft so it cost htat draft pick, in a similar vein to Moorcroft. Moorcroft and Hislop can be compared on the results they achieved for the club, still early with Hislop but why would Essendon discard a good player with a good attitude. Why bother?

Still on Richmond List - Oakley Nicholls, Kayne Pettifer, Angus Graham, Jay Schulz, Cleve Hughes, I could go on ... Recruited - Tom Hislop (ess), Adam Thomson (port), and Ben Cousins. Was it a similar story at Melbourne? Ryan Ferguson, Simon Godfrey, Daniel Ward, Luke Williams etc. Recruited - Gary Moorcroft, Byron Pickett, a heap of others, the list would be too long Don't get me wrong, I'm not having a go at the players named here, if i were offered another contract I'd take it too. However, I'm very glad we have a fresh new approach, new recruitment, new coach, new list management. The similarity in approach to list management though both at richmond and melbourne are incredible in Cameron's time. I've been saying to colleagues, look I'm a Melbourne supporter and we're struggling, but thank god I'm not a Richmond supporter. at least our mistakes come from bartram, or jones, or frawley, not from Simmonds, Bowden or N.Brown. Carn the dees, the new board and the new coaching staff. You're all doing a terrific job.

agree, very sceptical of petterd as a forward, but he was very very good playing as a forward pre injury in the doggies game. I've never been a big bell fan and he turned it over a bit, but geez he has a crack, and i would never had had him in my best 22, but after that game he gets in for his efforts, unfortunately he was injured. chalk and cheese between spencer and meesen. meesen had more of an effect around the ground, but was belted in the ruck. spencer held his own against quality rucks. spencer should get the nod, with p.johnson his backup. bennel very composed, however i feel cheney will get the nod if it comes down to those two, purely on his slightly bigger body. jetta is very good, if davey is injured he comes in. wona will be fit too. garland the general. forwards useless.

It's not simply that we are rebuilding. We dont have elite players of the Richo and Nathan Brown to go with the young blokes, Hawks had Cambpell Brown, Luke Hodge, Sam Mitchell, Crawford as well as the batch they recruited from 2004 onwards. We have decent players like Green, Davey, Bruce, Whelan, Wheatley and McDonald but none are elite. We really are starting from the beginning, hence we cannot afford the luxury of recruiting a certain type of player, because we need them everywhere, Forwards, Rucks, Mids, Flankers, Depth Players, our key backs is probably where we are advanced on other teams in the comp. One thing to note re Richmond, they have 6 players over 30 (Richo, K.Johnson, Brown, Simmonds, Bowden and Cousins) , 2 of which have played their whole careers at the club. The tiges just arent good at developing their own, see the Melbourne Demons pre Bailey. We need to avoid easy sells to supporters like Cousins, or Moorcroft or Pickett, or Sampi. Imagine we picked Sampi instead of taking the hard option and picking a pretty much complete unknown in Stef Martin. Bailey has us on the right track and does not squib the tough decision (Johnstone trade), unlike other leaders around this country.

Bail was 41. He looked pretty good, he appears to be one who you dont really notice, an in and under type, with clean hands. Agree on Morton, as the game went longer Morton just ran off his opponent who from memory was Buckley for most of the game, they didnt play on each other though, but Morton's stamina is first class, can run all day. Not sure if Dunn was tagging in all honesty, he got a lot of the ball early on, but did seem to drift. I dont want to bag any players, but I dont see what the fuss was about for Buckley, to me it was just a stock standard game. Probably needs to do a bit more these days. Wasnt a bad game, but I dont think he was in the top 5 for the day.

I think early on Martin was on Zomer, and not 100% but Frawley may have been on Bate. I can tell you at the other end it was Warnock on Miller and Garland on Newton, i think they swapped at half time so Warnock went to Newton (not sure if it was because Miller was doing so well, or to try Warnock on a more nimble type player in Newton, and Garland on a bigger body player).

na healey wore number 50. tallish looked ok in parts too. looks a decent player, but i'd like to see more.

I knew nothing about his overhead marking before today, but it really stood out today. In the 3rd quarter Frawley moved onto Jetta, and was trying to rough him up (seriously) but I guess in a friendly manner. Pushing him around, off the ball. His speed didnt stand out to me, not saying he's not quick but it was more his marking, and his composure in front of goals. Looks a real find. Didnt see anything that suggested he likes the physical stuff, but intra clubs arent the types of games to be a hero - see setanta. Skills were terrific.

I was at the game, much cleaner disposal than this time last year, still early but marked improvement. I cant believe, or perhaps I missed it, that no one has mentioned Cheney, but to me Cheney had a fantastic game, the big thing i noticed was that he took all the kick ins, which would indicate that perhaps he may be in line for some game time in the seniors. I'll be very interested to watch his progress, because to me he was the big surprise. The other big surprise was Neville Jetta, slotted a terrific goal running in from a forward pocket, and banana'd another goal. I think he had at least 4 shots on goal, but is very good overhead and took some very strong grabs. He looks a beauty and I would not be surprised if he played round 1. Should play in Tassie. For me Aussie was best on ground, he played more up the ground, his disposal is very clean and his decision making is excellent. Looked very polished as a goal kicking midfielder. Meesen to me wasnt too bad, I'm not claiming he played that well, but was reasonable against Spencer, Spencer though did very well in the one on ones and Meesen gave away a few free's against Meesen, and was very upset with a number of decisions. Spencer is the tap ruckman, but limited influence around the ground, Meesen not that good in the ruck although he did win a few contests, and had more influence than Spencer around the ground. I'm sure both will be given a go at some stage this year. Bennell did some very nice things throughout the game, faded in and out as you'd expect. But when he got it he was clean. I didnt see much of Strauss, but his disposal by foot was first class. Having read other reports, I thought Tom McNamara did play, he had the big blonde crop of hair and was wearing the number 2, not sure why. Didnt have a major influence on the game if it was him, but he is still very young. Dunn got heaps of the ball, and his disposal wasnt too bad, I'd of said he was in the top 5 on ground. But as others have said, it's hard to watch everyone, I wasnt really watching the old timers, although the pick of the oldies was definitely Miller, kicked 3, and set up Newton beautifully by foot early on which was a real highlight. Who else, Ricky Petterd is back, he was very good, drifted forward and kicked a couple I think. Will play most games this year barring injury, I saw him as mainly a half back sweeper, but perhaps he can become a goal kicking mid. Bate was well held I thought, Garland did a number on the Newt. The Newt seems to go to ground to easily, and it appears that he is not trying, it was a frustrating game for the Newt, but to me it looks as if he is really having a go. Martin very good, didnt get much of it, but was very handy in one play where he showed composure and kicked confidently through the corridor to set up a goal. I was expecting more from Grimesy, but played a reasonable game. But two real surprises for me was Kyle Cheney across the back line, and Neville Jetta across half forward. The other standout for me was Wona's game in the midfield. A superb game from Wona. Hit me up with questions, but be mindful I wasnt really watching the senior blokes.

sorry to double up. Hughes wore 38 (or at least was listed as wearing 38) when he was with us previously. so those numbers sound legit.

zomer 35, spencer 42.

Look at his recruits for Richmond this year. I know he wasnt the official recruiter, but he was in that role for most of the 2008 until they ditched Greg Miller. Secured Adam Thomson in trade period. Couldnt get a game at Port but will no doubt star at Richmond (tongue in cheek). Vickery - needed a ruckman and from all the press he was 2nd best in this years draft. Safe but probably worthy selection. Post - His only real selection of the draft. Hislop - very much a Gary Moorcroft type selection. Very easy to sell previous players to members rather than Neville Jetta's for example. Pass, which eventually became. Cousins - Again CAC went for the popular selection. Even rookies were mature agers, Nahas, and David Gourdis (recycled player in sense, more so than mature-ager). How did Jarad Oakley-Nicholls and Kayne Pettifer survive? not sure of their fringe players but perhaps one of those could have gone too. A lack of imagination and not enough turnover was his main problem at Melbourne and looks to be the same at Richmond. Very similar to the Melbourne of old at Richmond 2008, not enough list turnover and a focus on recycled players. No doubt Tim Lane will have something to say. NB: I'm not trying to be divisive by questioning the decisions made by a previous recruitment manager.

Another divisive comment made by you relates to James McDonald (in which I stood up for him getting another contract in 2009). I’m sure you recall your thoughts on him late in the 2008 season. If rumours are correct he will be the 5th Captain of the Club since the early 80’s. Talk about being divisive. I’m finished now, I can no longer waste time with the Tim Lane of Demonland.

Your grandstanding on Nathan Carroll could be interpreted as divisive. Jim also praised him for his efforts in the annual report. If I can borrow a quote – ‘The Club is proud of your petty vindictiveness.’ Leave Carroll alone Rhino, and other players you may have mocked in the past that are no longer with us, or worse still, are still with us. Don’t get too tied up in the noble cause.

I am highlighting what a competent board can achieve in a very short period of time, as well as having a swipe at all those who said/have been saying (not sure where you sat on the fence Rhino when Jim was elected President) – “What has Jim achieved?”, “Jim has not shown us a plan.”, “We want to see some results before we ascertain whether Jim is a success or not.” Many achievements are based on history. Jim’s annual report is a very good read and I feel much more comfortable with Jim at the helm. Surely comparisons must be made between the old and the new, for better or worse. The problem, I think in this case, is that this is for the better. By offering opinions on previous players/administrators is not being divisive it is being opionated. Perhaps I’m on the wrong board.

It’s a pity that supporters praise administrations that have made our club a laughing stock and practically bankrupt. Pretty sure behind closed doors Jim would not be praising the previous administration. But by all means Rhino praise the Gardner era from the rooftops if you believe it was a successful administration. By the way this particular supporter is being honest in his assessment and I do recognise the 5 years of incompetent service.

Note 23 on page 23 was my favourite. AASB Accounting Policies, Changes in Accounting Estimates and Errors, basically Gardner spruiked to us last year that we made a profit of $93k, this is now shown up as a loss of $109k. Another classic example of BS spun by the artist Gardner. This relates to the Travis Johnstone payment to Brisbane Lions, from memory we had to pay $200k of his salary in 2008, may also have been the reason why we were able to settle Carroll’s payment in the 2008 TPP, as Johnstone’s payment I assume went to the 2007 TPP based on the above correction. A lot more transparency this time round, in that we were able to view the financial reports on the MelbFC website. BS artist had hidden it away somewhere last year. Another interesting observation is the lack of blame the current administration heaps on the previous administration, in fact they are praised for their hard work. Fair enough Jim. Thank God for Jim without him and others we would be all but gone. The Christmas Carol song another example of initiative that id suggest all members appreciate, rather than a printed signed Paul Gardner Christmas Card.

No chance they will go a ruck at pick 17 as they know or should safely assume WC will not go for a ruck if they pick the nat. If that makes any sense. Therefore if they're planning on picking a ruck they'd pick the ruck at pick 19.

CARROLL DELISTED Nathan Carroll is now gone, but let's remember he was a good key back for us for a period of time, when there was no one else. I'm glad the matter has been resolved, but let's not all bag him. He got the best contract he could, who wouldnt. Good luck to him and thanks for the service. He will be remembered for that terrific tackle on Fraser Gehrig in the elimination final of 2006.

Caro is the mouthpiece of Demetriou and has been for some time. They use each other to get their respective messages across, in which case I'd suggest the AFL is giving Caro some reason to feel optimistic about the future home of our great club. Or perhaps it's just blind optimism on my part. Either way, Rome wasnt built in a day, so let's be patient.