Bonkers

I think your logic regarding Boyd and Watts is flawed. They are both filling in the same role but they are a totally different type of player. Boyd is a pack crashing, contested marking forward, due to his height he is suited to playing as a back up or fill in ruck. As we all know from witnessing Watts' career to date he is not that type of player. He is at best a 2nd or 3rd tall type who is blessed with skills & a game sense at ground level that helps him set up play. He can take a good grab but he is definitely not a pack busting contested mark & he's really not capable of throwing his weight around. We could have drafted for a ruck / forward but we chose not to. If the footy department went in to this season thinking that Watts would be an ideal back up ruck I have grave concerns over their judgement. What is most likely to have happened is that they identified this position as a weakness but perhaps the players available were not obtainable or deemed not good enough so they gambled on what they already had.

We don't have a player who can play the forward/ruck role effectively. This was spoken about last year & it's why we are still talking about Watts & Pederson to fill in. If we had addressed it at least we'd have some back up now. The ruck/forward role is a little bit of a wasted position as it's rare to find a quality player for that role. The example being Hawthorn recruiting Hale & then Vickery to replace him. Who would we have traded in? We've got other issues at the moment still, not enough good kicks but a lot of inside ball winners. We need to find a balance.

My main observations from the game were: -Clarry is already our best player at 19, a fit Gawn probably changes that -Hibberb is what we needed with ball in hand down back -the pressure applied at the contest almost ground Richmond into submission. We dominated the game everywhere but the scoreboard for 2.75 quarters. -whilst some have been complaining about ANB, I'm happy to have him in the side if he's laying 10 tackles & getting the pill 20 times a game. -I'm not sure what the coaching staff need to do. Our dominance of the contest is not resulting into a winning score. Forward line set up & stopping easy goals the other way must be a priority. Maybe we need to focus on outnumbering out the back so we aren't getting touched up so much in transition. -Riewoldt unfortunately was the difference as well as the injuries. It hurts to say this but he took almost all the opportunities he had & some of his goals especially in the first quarter were class. Overall the club is clearly going in the right direction. We need to convert more & possibly add some more skill & composure around the forward half of the ground. Frost & Pedo should share ruck duties next week. Other than Daniher do Essendon have a decent tall forward?

In my opinion there appears to have been lot of development with regards to the younger players as well as the style we are playing. Petracca, Hogan, Oliver and even someone like Smith appear to have become better players over the summer & probably still have a couple of Gears left or higher level to go to. Apologies to some other players that I'm sure I would have missed. Last year we were grinding a lot of games out & our contested brand of footy was what was winning us games from memory? Our attacking play was better but not looking like it does at the moment. That contested brand is still there but Goodwin has added another dimension to our attacking play. Our kicking patterns have changed and the players now appear to be under instruction to take more risks & kick on many different angles rather than a predictable pattern. The side also has the additions of Lewis, Hibberd & Melksham this year. Which has made us a lot more experienced side with a lot of depth. I get what you are saying & it's hard/impossible to predict the future. But I think as supporters we should be expecting to play finals & perhaps even play deep into the finals. I think the club should as well to be honest. If you don't have the vision to succeed then it makes it pretty hard to get to that point in my opinion. Hopefully they don't prove me wrong this year! ?

Thanks mate.

How many members are we up on this time last year? Does anyone have a running total for comparison?

Not sure if this has been posted. Looks like Pickering is trying to get the deal over the line for Lewis. Hawks now digging their heels in or trying to save face. http://www.theage.com.au/afl/afl-news/afl-trades-2016-jordan-lewis-not-filthy-with-hawthorn-as-contract-talks-continue-20161014-gs304p.html

We played the youngest age profile team in over half of the games this year. I don't think we need to worry about being too old, we have 2 players over 28. As another poster recently commented some people over analyse list management. If you can get a quality player who makes your list better for little cost then you do it. If its at the expense of an equally talented young player then maybe you don't, but you have to ask the question who would he keep out of the side? There's no one banging the door down who is absolute quality that can say they deserve a game over Lewis. Matt Jones still played over 10 games this year, Lewis is an upgrade on him so why wouldn't you do the deal? He will improve our best 22 when we already have a young group. It's a no brainer.

This is rubbish. The Hawks have told Lewis he won't be contracted past next season. That tells me the Hawks value him a one season player. Why would we give up a pick of any value for a player wth one year left? We hold all the cards here including the player wanting to come here. Hawthorn have just allowed their b&f winner to move to the Eagles for free almost, this situation is hardly any different. How could the Hawks treat Mitchell differently to Lewis? This is a PR nightmare for them if they don't agree to let Lewis leave & would show blatant disrespect to a 4 time premiership player.

For a deal to be agreed Lewis was obviously well down the road of accepting his career at the Hawks was over. From the outside it would appear there has to be some bad blood now between Lewis & the Hawks FD. How does that then just flip 180 again in the space of a couple of hours? I think this will play out over the next couple of days, if Lewis is genuinely upset he may force Hawthorn's hand & request a trade.

Any game against Victorian opposition is good, especially if its one of the more well supported clubs. If we can make it a regular game & alternate who gets to be the home side it would really add to our fixture.

I will accept that there has been 2 gun players in 6 years. I haven't done the research but it appears that this number will increase in the upcoming years if you consider the amount of talent coming through the academies at present both in NSW as well as QLD. 2 in 6 years is still a good result when you consider they will probably play over 200 games each & become likely top 50 or top 20 players in the comp. Sydney will build their team around these players so I think you are downplaying the impact it will really have to support your argument. My point is that if any team is given an unfair advantage to jump the queue to acquire talent it is not right & against the spirit of equalisation & why the draft was created.

The facts are Sydney used draft picks that were outside of their draft range to acquire the best talent in the comp via a loophole that the AFL created for them. Yes we bid for them but why should we have to bid for them? They should have just been available as that's what the draft was created for, equalisation. It wasn't created to keep players in certain zones or to give access to certain players at certain clubs. We don't have a chance at getting the best academy products as they will simply go to the interstate teams who will continue to use the loophole the AFL has created as you mentioned using the points system. They will continue to get cheap access to higher end talent than they would be able to access through the draft in their normal position. Hardly a rant just saying it how it is.

Spot on, how a team like Sydney who have been at the top of the ladder can get access to Mills & Heeney in the last two drafts is ludicrous. The AFL needs to run the academies rather than the clubs & push the players in the academies into the draft as it was before they had the academies.

Whilst he isnt at the peak of his game anymore he would be an upgrade on Matt Jones, Grimes, Lamumba, Newton, Michie, JKH in the midfield rotation. I wouldn't be against it as there are also probably going to be further senior players moving on such as Dawes, Grimes & Terlich etc etc. He'd definitely be an upgrade on most of those players I've mentioned in terms of a list spot so what do we really have to lose if its a one year contract? I think he'd improve our list & that's what we have to try & do. Whether he plays all 22 games ahead of some of the younger guys coming through it's debatable. We don't want to fall into the trap of just gifting young players games for the sake of it, they should be made to earn their spot through good performances & then given the opportunity. A lot of the fringe players when brought into the side this year in my opinion were pretty disappointing & I doubt if some of them will make the grade at AFL level. Players like Matt Jones, Michie & Newton fall into this category & are often the weakest link, so NDS would be an upgrade on them for mine. We need to target free agency as we won't get much topline talent through the draft this year & we already have a young list.

The competition implemented systems that are supposed to have equalisation measures which under pin the integrity of the game. How can the competition be taken seriously when those equalisation measures are being openly tampered with in an aim to give two new teams success? It defeats the purpose of why they were implemented in the first place. The whole competition is a farce. Salary cap exemptions, draft concessions and the introduction of academies all go against what the system was created for. I struggle to take the competition seriously anymore when it continues to happen. Outside of these issues is the uneven fixture & the drug issues that the AFL sweeps under the carpet. Whilst the game is getting record profits it is rotten to the core. What really surprises me is that the AFL clubs have let the AFL have too much say on the direction of the game & they are the ones who stand to lose out in the long run even if it does mean they all line their pockets from the TV revenue in the short term.

I don't think there's much chance of us becoming like north. I'm pretty sure we only have 1 player over 30 years of age? We've been playing as the youngest side in the Comp for around half of the season. If the club can identify players like Hibberd or Bernie Vince I think it would go a long way to pushing this team towards finals. Our midfield is getting close to being complete & will mature again this preseason. The areas of weakness are outside run, skilled ball users & a second ruck/forward ruck. You could also say CHB is not covered off either as Frost is not proven & looks shakes at times, same could be said of Oscar. I'd be happy if the club targeted experienced players in some of those positions to attempt to complete the list. I should add, so long as they don't target a player like Vickery & continue with their ok record of picking up experienced players.

Good to hear the Swans are putting North to the sword now. It's 28 points at the moment, hopefully they go on with it & put a real dent in their percentage.

In the past the club hasn't. I'm sure they have had their reasons. At the moment on the evidence at hand the list seems pretty healthy so there is certainly grounds to make the players available. Players like Grimes, Trengove, Michie & Dunn for example could be auditioning for new clubs. It's not only important for those players but also for the development of the younger players who perhaps haven't been given an extended run in the seniors this year.

I'm not sure why anyone really cares what he says. He obviously gets quoted on what he says in the heat of the moment. On reflection he probably regrets what he says, who knows? He's definitely a passionate demon who wears his heart on his sleeve & for me there is nothing wrong with that. He loves the club & wants it to be successful, I'd much rather someone like the Ox in the media having a voice than a pompous [censored] like Jeff Kennett at Hawthorn.

This question is seperate to yesterdays game, but does anyone have any info if the club will make the MFC listed players available for Casey's finals campaign? It would be a shame if they don't IMO.

What a fantastic win. Most impressed with the four quarter effort. We have played a few games against top 8 sides where we came close to knocking them off but just couldn't get over the line. It's a great reward for effort to finally get one of these wins. I think it may have finally clicked in their minds that they are good enough if they can put 4 quarters together. Watching the game from the ground the doubt was whether we could keep going, that was more than answered when we kicked 5 goals in a row to run over the top of them & bury them. A positive from the game for me was Sam Weideman. He didn't have too many touches throughout the game but whatever he did was composed & clean. I think he had 5 or more score involvements, his impact on the game was really important especially early on.

Why not just round off the deal & give them O'mac for Hibberd as well

The two kicks by Kent & Stretch were exasperating. I don't know if there is any level of football where those decisions would be the right decision ever. Then the skill execution after the decisions that were made were just as bad. Sometimes I wonder if the players either over think a simple scenario or are over coached at how to move the ball. I would have thought that the decision to move the ball in a certain direction would almost be instinctual at that level after years of training? It's the one area of our game that is still average & has stopped us winning multiple games this year. I'm hoping that some of it can be coached out of them, but I think the club is going to have to really focus on bringing in better decision makers & users of the ball over the next few years if we are going to be any chance at getting near competing for a flag.

He has been a good player for them, but over the past season or so his performances haven't been as good. A few Hawthorn supporters I know would be happy for him to leave & see him as a bit of a liability. Personally I think he adds a lot of run to their team & would be happy to have him at Melbourne as it's what we are crying out for. The other issue with Hill is (that if you believe rumours) he was at the centre of the Grand Final day aftermath scandal & there is also the assault charges that he had laid from a night club scuffle.