Wolfmother

Who cares that it occurred: it's like people want to put their fingers in their ears and repeat 'nothing bad happens nothing and happens'

They can take time in lieu between jul and oct Where do the volunteers call from???

The same way Carlton were investigated for tanking but there was nothing in it??! Dr Reid wasn't speaking to a journo he just chats a lot and sadly with the text messages from our club dr I'm not naive to think we weren't doing something. What??? Who knows but I have no doubt the avoided looking at anything serious. Drug in sports seems massive to me and I can't believe a sporting organisation would not open the can of works even if they hated what they would fine. Tanking I can complete understand but drugs is on another scale

Are you serious? This is a discussion board? This isn't something new, maybe google the articles. Its already out in the public and this thread isn't going to create any public uprising and calls for an investigation If you think a demonland poster can do this you overvalue your own self worth. I find it interesting that the AFL know the problems but don't want anything for the sake of image and was wondering others opinion

One of them. Dank recorded all his information as he was using results to justify his existence/sell his wares to whoever People forget that essendon thought they were on the edge but within the rules using trickery like a compound chemist with prescription allows for non tga drugs etc etc. They had no issue recording the program as they were doping they are now finding out that edge was behind them and they used banned PEDs

A family was having a chat to dr Reid and of course the discussion was on the EFC drug scandal. One of the topics brought up was the rest of the competition using the exact same drugs. He mentioned that MFC even using dank but as the AFL were in damage mode after EFC self report they swept it under the carpet. The main difference between the rest of the AFL and EFC was the injections weren't brought in house but the players advised that a certain person (dank in mfc case) could provide benefits from supplements. The players could attend of there own free will even though 20 may have attended on the same arvo it wasn't co ordinated by the club. Now it's easy to shoot the messenger as we don't want to be involved in it but I doesn't surprise me nor does the cover up. If mfc were under investigation and the information in the article below was out there I would have no issue thinking we were guilty like EFC. Trent Croad was a salesman for these supplements and he didn't find them away from football. Text messages reveal Dank involved with Demons I have no issue believing this as the AFL did the exact same thing the Melbourne with tanking. Whilst it was obvious that it had been happening for years and many clubs were involved by investigating and charging one they are able to close the issue and say they dealt with it. The AFL as so focused on running the competition as a business and the overall gods of the sport that they have lost the morale compass to deal with things as it will effect their revenue. If the AFL was running a league they would surely have to suspend EFC from the comp if a drug program was proven but I really doubt they will give a punishment as not to effect their bottom line. It nearly time that the AFL to split the organisation and have one running the league and one running the sport which may allow for more prudent decision making as it appears that many decision having conflicting interests

Wow curry your are being a dick Your are fighting a small argument with people but can't argue with someone putting4k into the club and not getting a phone call to renew Replying To a complaint with some signed stuff wtc is good customer service and is something the club does poorerly. This respect to a member is required Rather than a one way street which is the current situation Sadly this club should not be without criticism... I've realised that most people will accept this due to idolim but the afl but really looking at the industry it's very incestual environment... Whisper forty football players on a list develops a diverse ranges on off field talent that reality is that only hires it's own and they are not the cream of the crop despite what they are paid..Josh Maloney is a good is example he went from an assist coach to football manager but really he only knows the afl way of doing rhings... A real manger would confirm priorities and pull the football department up if it's not inline with the clubs goals but they don't know how to do that... The afl is it's own little beast but whilst I love the club for my own personal reasons and it relies on this passion to create its funds it's sadly struggling in any real world stuff and would struggle if it was a corporation that had to make money rather than just survive

I'll must admit the club continues to disappoint readying this thread probably just confirms that I'm not the only one that sees the problems. I couldn't sleep last night and wrote my first email to club just showing my complete amazement at lack of sales or respect for members. I outlined a few concerns including that I really wonder if the club had the people with correct skills in sales as I've have a sales background and see massive gaps that the club continues time and time to miss. The club misses the basic so many times that in reality it's a cultural thing with no drive (or if they are pushed it is all hot air without substances) These are the points I outline including personal experiences that amaze me . - the labour day match sim, these failures show a complete disrespect by the clubs for its fans. If the club markets this event surely there is someone overseeing this to ensure it goes off. Although the football department had priority changing the training session around to ensure the thing went off at the right time for one session isn't going to destroy a pre season. - sales; I relayed the story that I was a player sponsor a few years ago and giving about 4k to the club. I relayed that although I indicated at the last event that I might not be able to take the sponsorship next year due to a divorce I never received a phone call to renewal or even an attempt to sell me something at lower level/premium membership. It been four years and I still haven't received a call. I don't need a call to stroke my ego as I am an easy kill with a property dees group would give the club some money. If they are missing such easy sales from me how many more are they missing! (I have sponsored a local club as the mfc attitude is pretty poor and they at least approved are the funds. Although it's an afl wide issue the fact that we turn over 10k members each year is a disgrace they need to be profile members recording their comments and calling them to put a bit or pressure (I'm talking sales here). They are wasting cash to flyers and posting the To you le address when if they checked what was the best source of renewal it would be calling Since I haven't had a call and members of my family haven't I seriously wonder how much the club is missing in easy sales. This is not a resources problem it's the laziness of the sales staff if all 2014 members aren't called in the off season and they should do the past two years Anyway I sent this long email to info@Melbourne and maybe thought I would hear back as i was pretty blunt. I then saw the telethon tonight which just proves to be that they don't understand customer service which is our front office primary role. surely someone complaining about no calls in four years would get someone off there bum and go we better call this loony tonight to stop his complaining . I love the club but the lack of skills in such a vital area(and not highly complex stuff) demonstrates this club will never get back to the powerhouse it was

I think the penalties including this myth of six months sentences is being pushed by the media in an attempt to influence the decision. The main reason for thinking it will be six months is because ASADA has already offer a no significant fault deal (which essendon rejected) so that reduces it to 12 months and six month discount for co operation in interviews. I think that with the deal off the table there won't be an offer of no significant fault but even of there is then 12 months is the minimum as the additional six months is for providing assistance to an investigation not answering questions in an interview. The assistance must be of a level That results in evidence against people in the program etc. So in reality they may get 12 months but I think 2 years is most likely Won't the [censored] hit the dan when that happens just before the season starts ?

I think the penalties including this myth of six months sentences is being pushed by the media in an attempt to influence the decision. The main reason for thinking it will be six months is because ASADA has already offer a no significant fault deal (which essendon rejected) so that reduces it to 12 months and six month discount for co operation in interviews. I think that with the deal off the table there won't be an offer of no significant fault but even of there is then 12 months is the minimum as the additional six months is for providing assistance to an investigation not answering questions in an interview. The assistance must be of a level That results in evidence against people in the program etc. So in reality they may get 12 months but I think 2 years is most likely Won't the [censored] hit the dan when that happens just before the season starts ?

The only thing I've noticed in the last few pages is people think this is a big conspiracy/cover up with essendon, which includes EFC clearing all there severs and players duped etc Essendon records are there showing the jabs. Whilst for a bit of insurance they started referring to the drugs a thymosin and amino acids etc dank believed TB4 was legal in May 2013 until corrected by the age journalists. He didn't realise he was giving a banned substances so that's why the evidence is there I actually think dank [censored] up and didn't realise he gave them banned drugs. He thought he was walking a fine line with AOD and tried to ensure that wasn't caught whilst leaving TB4 on the books. In his interview with the age journalists he listed TB4 as the corner stone of the program!!!

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-03/new-evidence-contradicts-danks-claims-of-wada-approval/4667294 This sort of conversation with WADA is what I expect from dank... He thinks he knows better than the drug agency's so wanted to confirm it wasn't on the prohibited list and was happy to run with the line that if a Dr prescribes it and a compound chemist makes it's legal under the code. It also amazes me that he didn't actually speak to ASADA at all.. Not a first round interview where could state they were twisting the evidence or not applying the code correctly. He has spoken to them at all and knowing he is in this industry that would be pretty standard

http://m.theaustralian.com.au/sport/afl/tribunal-told-bombers-texted-each-other-about-thymo-injections/story-fnca0u4y-1227157241236

CHF I don't think WADA can enforce penalties against the club as the code mentions the governing body should penalties and appropriate sanction including lose of points, suspensions from comp etc etc but there is nothing in concrete. Anyone know any different??

He was only going to sue for wrongful dismissal if he was sacked for appealing the Middleton case which is what little told him would occur. The fact that he did appeal and bomber Thompson was told he had the job at the b&f didn't last with hird stating you can't sack me for me undertaking my legal rights which the essendon board agreed to and back down from sacking him...The following rumour has been mentioned multiple times but it was only stated in relation to EFC informing hird that he shouldnt appeal and if he did he faced being sack as the club wanted to move on

Of course something taken is required for guilt. A positive blood test is not required but lance Armstrong went down for taking epo etc. The fact you are alluding to attempting to take I believe is a long bow as the players didn't order the product or understand that it was banned, I don't think they can go down for attempted use as the fact it was ordered by someone seperate to them is a massive difference to wade lees or Similar cases !!

It's time, you are correct that ASADA has to still prove it's case to the comfortable satisfaction of the tribunal panel otherwise the charged are thrown out. I have had this happen to me (when I was a copper) that one of my charges was thrown out as the judge didn't believe I had proved it with the evidence provided so out it went, before the defence had even spoken. Whilst I agree to the changes in legislation are required the players will have to prove what they took as I think the tb4 will be proven to be a EFC by ASADA so it's up to the players to prove what they took wasn't that drug. The evidence you depicted as having issues would be very hard to dispute. For example the invoice from alevi could be argued by the defence as not correct and no cross examination could occur. The interviews with charters and Alveri would have been taped which would of allowed the judges to see the meaning behind statements. The invoice whilst question could one be proven by the investigator who obtains it and read all the records of the chemist( I know not the best method but this is not a court of law) both charters and Alecto are vital to the chain of custody for tb4 but I think the defence wouldn't be attacking their evidence unless there was a major issues with it I can't see. Charter got tb4 from china and gave it alveri who then made into an injectable form and gave it to danks. His invoice was paid by EFC. Dank admits he received the tb4 but it was destroyed because of UV hence I found it hard for the defence to attack that part of the case once as confirmed it was tb4 from china The issue as I see them would be the fact that the tb4 invoice was refunded in May and a fresh one was paid for thymomodulin??Why was that it looks like it was shuffling paperwork to appear that thymomodulin was paid for rather than thymosin? (Again the defence don't want to touch this) Or what occurred with the letter that dank requested to be signed by Alveri in May 2012 and was produced with his signature for feb 2012?? (Again defence won't want to touch this) The defence will want to know to things from Alveri - did he supply anything other(ie tthymomodulin or another substance listed as thymosin) to EFC or was it only tb4 obtain by charters (defence will only want to touch this if they know the answer is positive/in there favour but will be in his statement/interview) The defence will be only want to speak to alveri about dank and his requirements for tb4 outside his role at essendon and would did he so with the amount given to him?? Sorry I waffled on there about the evidence but I don't think the defence will be arguing about the chain of custody , as it was pretty closed case by the look of it... They will pick up from when dank had custody as how does ASADA prove it went to essendon with no actually stock in type items. He could of taken it all to his clinic and had EFC just pay for it... Maybe that's why the refund occurred he realised he had charged EFC for his clinics order The evidence of tb4 getting to dank and EFC paying for it originally is pretty tight and about comfortable satisfied as you will get, so I don't think that's were there will be an issue. The defence need to argue that dank never brought it to EFC or they used something else which they would need invoices for as the players have texts discussing there thymo shots

Agreed even the AFL not putting into practice the contingency plan until the start of the NAB cup seems weird. Why wouldn't you have had top up players training since nov/dec/jan with the IN issues. The only reason I can see is to allow essendon to pretend is business as usual and we will just get this silly tribunal thing out of the way prior to the start of the season. This way they can still sell membership, corporate packages and sponsorships like its a normal season and fake surprise when they are suspended rather than have it hit their bottom dollar if people realise this suspension could be real as the club is preparing for it

The thing that amazes me over this whole saga is how propaganda can influence the masses. The clever use of the media by essendon has resulted in a fair amount of their supporters believing the club did nothing wrong and this is a witch hunt. If they had admitted straight away to a drug program even in error, I believe they would have lost a lot of their fan base. This way they have been able to keep their fan base even if found guilty as most will believe its a set up. It really demonstrates with power and money you can nearly get away with anything

Sue I thought a few(no all) had a go at binman even though he was asking if anyone had seen the actually statement. This including referencing the charge sheet which doesn't demonstrate no records which is what people are claiming. Like binman suggested this hasn't been stated anywhere but is constantly stated as fact. I don't know the completeness of the records but would suggest the issue are around the listing of amino acids as the injection as this does describe the players injection but could be a hundred different things. Most people believe there is no records which I believe is false. I also believe the incomplete records aren't as bad as everyone believes. Yes, if they were destroyed that is another matter completely but I doubt this has occurred. Most people are putting 2 + 2 together when they heard there are no records and thinking its impossible such a program wasn't recorded some how. As EFC computers were forensically investigated I doubt they could of deleted them to that level even if they wanted too.

Agreed if tb4 is proven to be there by ASADA it's up to essendon to prove that it wasn't used as thymosin injections as it their defence

As you would expect from an illegal drug problem. The fact is that records exists including the records of players receiving thymosin injections. Essendon also has records of injections of amino acids which could refer to anything and one of a number of reasons their records were deemed inadequate. If ASADA proves that the only thymosin essendon had at windy hill was TB4 it's game over

The last few pages shows how people get so attached to their opinion that even a general question is shouted down. I don't know if it's if because people would feel silly of there opinion ibeing proven wrong but it's amazing how it occurs. Binman it has never been stated that there is no records and I was the one that posted it 100 pages ago that there are records. The myth has been picked up by the media and now is given as fact with this information starting from the statements that essendon couldn't be sure what they gave the players. This statemt was a responsible to the question regarding the Mexican drugs injected prior to the Anzac game Essendon have never corrected the error as it works for them otherwise they could be asked to explain what was given if it was known they had records. The AFL charges that everyone has referenced is about governance and poor auditing, incomplete records, source locations not listed etc which means that you need to have records not to have complete ones. Here is an article that references a spreadsheet that EFC submitted as evidence so it shows the no records might be a media furphy repeated multiple times which had turned it into fact. http://www.theaustralian.com.au/sport/afl/evidence-omitted-from-asada-report-on-dons/story-fnca0u4y-1226707923613 There are records in ASADAs evidence from EFC just the quality is the issue. Although some people are asking why wouldn't this be finished if they had records essendon. EFC are arguing the thymosin listed in the records/consent forms is short for Thymodulin not thymosin beta 4, which seems to me a stretch that you would be shortening something by two letters. This is why the ASADA has been providing so much evidence regarding the supply chain for the drugs. EFC admit to taking thymosin but are claiming its not the illegal one which ASADA is demonstrating the only thymosin at EFC is TB4.

It's also possible that the eight players were in the program but they couldn't provide the substances they took included tb4

The only issue is that if the players drug programs had any tailoring to them it's about proving which players had the bad injections because they know banned substances where at the club