sylvinator

Even though our injury list has appeared long through the year, i think we have been remarkably lucky with injuries this season. For most of the year we have had our best 22 play, and our injuries have mostly been our very young players (Tapscott, Blease, Gawn, Gysberts) or our rookie list players. Jamar, Green, Moloney (until recently), Jones, Frawley, Rivers, Garland, Bruce etc have all played almost every game. Even To be competitive every team needs their best players out there each and every week, especially the players in important positions. I'm a little scared that we'll have another dip next season if guys like Green, Jamar and Bruce, who have all had the season's of their life, have injury interrupted years.

I think a really relevant point is that this is the first time in probably at least 20 years that we are in a position to actually entice a senior player from another team to come to us. - we've finally got first class facilities. I reckon Judd (and others) took a look at junction oval and ran in the other direction. - We've got salary cap room from front loading contracts big time. According to Tim Harrington in the round 22 Whiteboard wednesday, the strategy has partly been done with the idea to potentially attract a guy from another club to fill a hole in our list - We're widely considered, for good reason, to be an up-n-coming team that will be having a sustained period of succeess over the next 5-10 years I'd love to get another ruckman, any quality midfielders or a big forward... however i think our best bet is to continue drafting 18 year olds this year and next. I would only be looking to trade someone from another club in 2-3 years, when we are in the top 8 pushing for top 4. Reason being is that in 2-3 years we'll know exactly which holes we have on our list. Atm we have talent all over the field and we're still unsure which of these will 'make it' and which won't. Collingwood brought in Jolly and Ball this season, after 2-3 seasons of being top 4, and it has really taken them to another level. I think that model is the best way to do it... once you're already pushing for top 4 and know you need 1 ruckman and 1 inside mid to complete you're team for example.

I wouldn't think Jones would be going anywhere. From the sounds of al his tweets, he absolutely loves the boys and the club. I also have a bad feeling one of Bruce, Warnock, Bate or Morton will be gone. It seems very much a 'co-incidence' that Warnock, Bate and Morton are all our of contract and also out of the team for the last few games after being core 22 players earlier in the season. I'd hate to see anyone go.

Probably at B+. Definite improvement on last season. I like the stat of how many quaters we win per season. This year is already well up on last season, with 2 games to go. If we keep contiuing down this path we will makes top 4 within 2-3 years. This year served its purpose. We learned how to win again, we pumped plenty of games into our young players, we unearthed a few gems, and our senior players stood tall.

Probably at B+. Definite improvement on last season. I like the stat of how many quaters we win per season. This year is already well up on last season, with 2 games to go. If we keep contiuing down this path we will makes top 4 within 2-3 years. This year served its purpose. We learned how to win again, we pumped plenty of games into our young players, we unearthed a few gems, and our senior players stood tall.

Agreed, loved that highlights package. sorry if my argument seemed patronising to some, but its just that Watts' talent just seems so obvious to me. Sure, he only shows it in glimpses, but he will be one hell of a player one day.

In my opinion, that question is really kind of a 'miss the point' question to begin with. Would Miller contribute more on game day this week than Watts? Who the hell cares, that question should not even be asked in the first place. The facts are that we will not make finals this year, are nowhere near a premiership tilt this season, and Miller will almost certainly be delisted by year's end. Watts on the other hand, definitely will be around for our next premiership tilt. In fact, of all players on our list, in order to win a flag in the next 5 years, we probably rely on Watts coming good more than almost all other players on our list. For that reason, Watts' development is what must be prioritised this season. And developing him the quickest means getting him to 50 afl games asap. We know he has the potential and the skills, all he needs is a bigger body and afl games. There are some people who think we should have stuck Watts in vfl to learn his craft most of this season. They might even be correct in saying he often hasn't played up to scratch. However, if we listen to those people, Watts would only have 3-4 afl games this season, and we would find that 4-5 years into his career he would still be a baby in terms of afl experience. The 'Bailey' way has resulted in Watts already being at around 20 games, and within 2 years, will be close to 60 afl games! Sure, there must always be a balance of playing guys on merit, and doing what is right to player development. That is a given. But Watts is absolutely critical to our future chances of success. In the words of Cameron Schwab, "he is our number 1 asset". Dean Bailey has been absolutely focused and driven in his plan to develop our future premiership team. I'm in his camp, and i am thankful those calling for his to be dropped from the senior team aren't running the club, because they are being a little short-sighted.

I have no problems with comprehension thanks, and my post was not intended to be directed at any particular poster and at no one particular comment. I only believe it is necessary to remind people that it is only the unreasonable posters who unfairly criticise 19yr olds who have elite attributes, but are only lacking 2 things- afl experience and an afl body- which both will inevitably come. Intelligent people realise that patience is therefore required, and it is a useless and unconstructive exercise to highlight every mistake Watts makes. Because 19yr olds make mistakes, especially when they are stick thin and 196cm tall. These rough edges will be ironed out with... take a guess... a couple more preseasons and 30-40 more afl games. No rose-coloured glasses here. To all those who agree with me, and i know there are plenty out there, don't try to convince those to demand on highlighting every mistake Watts makes. Have you ever successfully convinced someone who is adamant they are correct? Is it near impossible to do. So instead, just enjoy our up-n-coming list, and all those who unfairly criticised will end up joining the bandwagon eventually

That would definitely not be the end of the world, considering he's 30+, won't be around for our next tilt in 3 years, and doesn't actually play an overly important position on the ground (half back flank/tagger) He's be top 5 in our B&F most likely, and considering he is one of our best paid players, we will definitely get at least a late first rounder for him under the current criteria. If he did go, and we get a late first rounder, i'd only use it in 2 years time, so a late first round pick is 19, instead of pick 30 something. Also at that time we'll be pushing for top 4, so an ongoing injection of talent will be important

Watts will be a gun, and those doubting him will just end up with eggs on their faces... just like those who wrote off Garland, said Green was soft in the first 2-3 years of his career, that Sylvia will never dominate a game and said Frawley wouldn't make it and had terrible skills. All those reasonable people who understand Watts is 196cm, 83kg and 19 yrs old, can repeat endlessly how patience is needed, but the impatient will never listen. Anyone with half a brain can look through the champion tall forwards of today (Brown, Franklin, Bazza Hall, Jack Reiwoldt) and understand that Watts is actually on par of ahead of what these guys were in their second season and 19 yrs old. But alas, the impatient will not listen. Unfortunately, there is no way to convince someone who's already made up their mind. So, us reasonable people wait until Watts puts on 15kg and plays 50 afl game, and when he eventually comes good, the impatient will come around and love him as well. But for those who are willing to give a guy 1 year after VCE a chance... Watts very clearly has elite attributes, and that is what makes him a potential superstar. Attributes - His speed has tested as in the top 1% in the afl - His athletacism has tested in the top 3% in the afl - He clearly has incredible kicking skills around the ground - His marking is very good, and when he builds a body so will his contested marking - He hasn't been able to show it, but he actually has a very good set shot for goal when he is up on confidence The ONLY, yes ONLY thing he is lacking atm, is 15kg, and about 35 games of AFL. When he gets those 2 things, he will eliminate the rough edges to his game, be less scared to put his body on the line, and become a champ. Shame on those who write him off too early.

Disagree. Jamar can't ruck 100% of the game, and you lose valuable clearances if you don't have a good back-up ruckman. Ruckman are still critical in the modern game. This week PJ had a bad week, and we lost several key clearences all over the ground when he was in the ruck. It cost us several goals, including the winner to Shaun Burgoyne. PJ is probably not the answer, but that shouldn't stop us from making it a priority to finding a very good back up ruckman.

Needs: Number 1= more quality midfielders. We lose the midfield almost every week, as evidenced by the fact we concede lots of inside 50s, and enter our forward 50 amongst the lowest in the league. day light... Some other needs... - Strong marking big forward - Another genuine crumber with pace - Another quality half back rebounder/runner - 2nd ruckman I would prefer to rely on our own internal talent + this years drafting to fill these needs. For example, in the midfield, i'd prefer to develop Scully, Trengove, Gysberts, Tapscott, Blease and Grimes, rather than giving up a heap in order to get Travis Boak. Unless it was a really good get, I probably wouldn't trade at all. Would be interested in a decent 2nd ruckman if available via trade.

agree to disagree. One thing we both agree on is that we'd be in quite a bit of strife if Jamar went down. If I were in charge of the list i'd be looking to target Sam Jacobs from the blues big time. He's a good tap ruckman, actually pretty good around the ground. He's currently 4th ruckman at Blues with Warnock, Kruiser and Hampson in front of him. I think a second round pick (around pick 34) should get the deal done. The '2nd ruckman' spot is a big worry atm

Fair enough. i can understand that you don't rate PJ. I don't really rate him easier, but i acknowledge that he's been pretty decent in recent weeks and if Jamar went down would be so far and away our best option it isn't even funny.

Thanks for proving my point. I never said that ruckman shouldn't play before mid 20s, rather they can't expect to be competitive against premier ruckman before mid 20s. How would those guys go as the main ruckman against Jamar or SandilandS?

fact is that ruckman, unless they are absolute FREAKS, are not competitive until their mid 20s. Kruiser is the only one i can think of who was semi-decent by age 20 and even Kruiser, if he had to lead the ruck division, would have been killed. If you honestly believe Gawn (19yro), Fitpatrick (19yro), Martin (22yro and not a natural ruckman) and Spenser (20 yrso) could lead the ruck division should Jamar be injured, then our opinions are so far apart there is no point even discussing it further.

PJ stays. If Jamar went down... - Gawn: coming off a knee re-co and now another knee injury. at least 3 seasons away from being half decent - Fitzpatrick: 19 yrs old, 80kg frame, at least 2 years from even a debut - Spenser: an uncoordinated nepolean dynamite look-a-like. May come good, but if he does, it is more likely going to be around the age of 26 like Jamar. - Martin: shocking ruckman. He will probably be delisted, but if he does stay on the list the only position he's ever been comfortable is as a tall defender PJ, as ordinary he is, is the only viable back up we have

Is anyone in this thread actually sure of whether Grimes has re-torn his hammy. I've had recurring hamstring injuries, and sometimes in the first few games back you can have a little 'tweak' or sting in the hammy, that gets you scared, so you don't play the rest of the game... but actually its one of those things that really only takes 5-7 days to recover fully from.

Not sure if this is sarcasm. I assume it is, since i'm sure you know that you can't demote to the rookie list, only delist the player and hope they are unwanted by any other clubs and available by your pick in the PSD. This year especially, since GC17 have the first 5 picks of the rookie draft, they'll take any half decent delisting. Anyways, on topic of the rookie list, i'd clean it out completely, with the exception of upgrading McKenzie to the senior list. Take a punt on a few players in the rookie draft and try to unearth a gem at a low cost. Also, just realised i forgot about Martin. Surely he'd be close to being delisted? - Bell (certain delisting) - Miller (certain delisting) - McDonald (retire :-( - Green (put onto the veteran's lsit) If we need more spots, then the next to go are Martin and McNamara

I probably agree with the delistings, but would not elevate Spenser. Prefer pick 50ish for sure.

Watts will not impact games regularly until he has at least 50 afl games AND until he is probably 21-22 years old. That is not because he is a dud, it is because he is 196cm tall, yet only 84kg, and like all KPP is taking time to learn the craft and develop his body. Option 1: get 50 games into Watts by the age of 20, he is fast tracked in his development, so that by the time his brain and body are ready to take games by the scruff of the neck, he doesn't have the experience to do so. So we have to wait a further 12-24 months before he learns how to impact games at afl level Option 2: it takes his 4-5 years to get to 50 games, so he only learns to take games on 2-3 years later than he would otherwise. Think Gumbleton, 15 games and in his 4th season (due to injury). He is in his 4th season and is in the same development stage as Watts in his first season. Why? Purely because he hasn't played enough afl games so is still in a learning phase Keep playing Watts and pump games into him. It will click soon and all come together. Atm, he does 1 promising thing, 1 good thing and then 1 bad thing. The bad things will get less and less.

Our ladder position is now virtually finalised. We won't go longer than 11th, since Adelaide in 12th position play Collingwood and Western Bulldogs. We almost certainly won't go higher than 9th, since Hawthorn are 2 games and a lot of % ahead of us. If we beat Port and North= 9th position If we beat Port but lose to North= 10th position If we lose to Port but beat North= 10th or 11th position If we lose to Port and lose to North= 11th position Just for people who are interested... 9th= pick 18 10th= pick 16 11th= pick 14 There really isn't a whole lot of difference between pick 14 and pick 18. In previous drafts there has been a blanket over several players between pick 10-20. Last year losing games meant getting pick 2 for free (ended up being Trengove). This year its only 4 draft spots late in the first round, certainly not worth 'list managing' at this stage. May as well finish the season on a high

We should definitely try to keep winning. Would be happy to see Warnock, Bate and Morton back in the team for the last 2 games so that they can still feel a part of the team going forward. All 3 are important players for the future still imo, even though they are out of the team atm.

100% agree. Hawthorn did play well, so have to give them that. Moloney was sorely missed today at stoppages

The reality was that at the time, we didn't stand for anything, and we probably did deserve to have the big-blockbusters taken away from us. :I remember going to several games with 10-18,000 at the stadium. It was the hard truth, and luckily for us, the board took it the right way and turned things around. Now the club has been completely re-branded, supporters are passionate again, we are getting good crowds and playing exciting footy. Alot can change in 2-3 years