rpfc

Pick 10 and change, and defend the kid to the hilt with these mercenary charges.

That's fine, we can leave it there. I do think we would agree on more than you think and we are largely talking past each other: Watts isn't providing a level of commitment expected of a 9 year veteran, he is a player of certain talents but not key to the team, and the coaching staff have a desire to remove a headache and create an asset. The FD has been inelegantly vocal with the situation, and Watts has obstinately defended himself against the criticisms. The devil is in those details of course, but I think that would be a fair summation of Land's opinion on this situation.

I'm just needling, good to have you back on the footy boards.

That's usually how you form what side of an argument you are on, isn't it?

Prefer Gondor.

If Watts' 2016 is not great for him - then you are still deluded about the kind of player he is and can become. There is no 'potential' left - he is what he is - his best is 2016, and the start to 2017. That's it. Subjective Conjecture I have bolded above. Point me to the direct quote from the club about his injury being hampered by his 'poor preparation.' I understand his commitment at the start of the season wasn't good enough, it was written and discussed at length. Anecdotes? Show them to me. And not that I wouldn't believe them - I would. But I have my own anecdotes about Gawn and Vince that make me cringe. Why is Watts on this altar by his lonesome? That was my question - not that he should not be there. That last paragraph - is it trying to define my argument? That I am blaming Goodwin and absolving Watts of his ills? When have I said that? My points are; 1. This has been poorly handled, and needlessly public. 2. Watts should not be the only one sacrificed on the altar of 'professionalism' and 'standards'. 3. That I think this is about loosening a tradeable asset as much as it is about setting the above standards. My larger point about Jack Watts and the MFC this off-season has been that we need to change the narrative around Jack AND his perceived importance to the club, and not feed into it (http://demonland.com/forums/topic/42884-good-win-i-dont-know/). The pivot from 'heartbreaking' failure to make the finals, to publically haranguing Jack Watts' for his lack of commitment was almost immediate and holistic. Who is to blame for our failure? If we are embracing honest talk - as some on here love Goodwin and Mahoney for embracing - then can we talk about 'who/what is to blame for our failure?' Because it is not just Jack Watts. He would be down the list of reasons...

Yeah, talk about a thread derailment...

It is the way you read it as opposed to the way I presented it: This thread embodies the discussion, the disagreement, the torn opinion of loyal Demons - there will be no schism at other clubs - he will be laid to waste at the first sign of a downturn in performance (even performances that a role player can't effect in any meaningful way). That was my point, and I don't see it as the protection of Dees fans/members/FD - I see it as perspective.

Ruthless? Perhaps. But is ruthlessness always such a public flogging? Of an asset you are trying to move? That has two years left on a contract he signed 12 months ago? We can make tough decisions and not force someone into a very public corner. And this altar of preparedness and commitment that we are currently slaying Watts on - where was it when we re-signed him? Eight years of bad habits and we think it will all change in the ninth? Or did it suddenly get worse? And if it did - why did it get better under Roos? Do that again... I honestly don't see how anyone can see this as 'a good club doing what good clubs do'...

That Mahoney interview was a public appeal trying to convince Jack to go. I appreciate the 'honesty' of the forwarded reasons around his preparation not being a great influence on a young group, as I have previously, I do question our purity when it comes to that altar. Max Gawn is no great 'preparer' I have it on good authority... Mahoney had to say what he said with all that has already been put out there, but it would have been preferable to not have a situation such as this. I think Jack will relent and leave because I don't believe Mahoney when he says that Jack can come back - I think the message will be 'why come back when we don't want you? You are better off starting again elsewhere.' It is a powerful motivator when the coaching staff tell you to eff off. My personal opinion is that the harder decision for Jack to make is to stay, and I also believe that no matter where he goes he will not be better off and that other clubs will eat him alive; think about the division amongst Dees fans/members/FD - there will be no division on Jack at other clubs - he will be on notice from day 1 and even with full commitment and proper preparation - 3 bad losses and there is a ready made fall guy and that will be that.

Yeah, didn't people see my monty burns gif? Lever is willing to go to the draft and there is ND10 and a second rounder is sitting there for them. The AFL will pressure them to take it because the almighty [censored] that will happen if Lever gets picked up by NM in the draft is not a storm the AFL is ready for.

My gut feel now: That this is less about setting standards and more about creating an asset to use this trade period because we have talked to more people than we can pay to get with current assets... How's that for speculation?!

He says on the 73 page of a thread devoted to one player on a forum devoted to one club...

Those of us who disagree would argue that 'Trading Watts = Standards Lifted' is an oversimplification and one last act of scapegoating Watts for the ills of the past. "He has done nothing for 9 years" some cry - but will they give Weideman the benefit of the doubt for his two underwhelming years? Of course. "Hadn't shown anything before 2016" is another call to the heavens and yet those some Dees supporters would argue that until 2014 the club was an absolute shambles and couldn't develop a Polaroid. The standards at the beginning of the season that were not met should be the fundamental and only point of argument for moving Watts on. They definitely can be - but I would plead with Goodwin to run that bus over Kent, JKH, and the other two delistees who were apart of that midseason drinking session. Let's share that love around, because it doesn't sit well with me that there is one singular sacrificial lamb on the altar of 'standards.'

That instagram caption would indicate he is off then, if he is telling teammates as much.

When Lever says he is 'off to the draft' if no deal eventuates...

And Watts responded. FMD, if I was a Dee I wouldn't want to leave either... Is that not something to laud? We bemoan contracts meaning nothing and here is, allegedly, Jack trying to hold us to it... IF this is the case, Goodwin should bring him back into the fold and pay him out at the end of 2018 if it goes belly up...

What an unfair diatribe. Goodwin can say nothing on this and then the questions to Watts have no weight - he doesn't have to answer 'what the coach thinks' because Goodwin doesn't make it public. Goodwin can do what he likes as coach, I would implore him to, but my criticism of him isn't absolution for Jack Watts and you trying to equate the two is foolhardy. Does anyone here really think Goodwin has handled this well? We have a contracted player (forget his onfield pros and cons) who has been brought into a [censored] for tat with the coach on his flaws when he hasn't found a club yet, and/or we haven't found a suitable trade partner. With so much water to travel under this bridge, Goodwin needs to stop blatantly planting explosives on the bridge! And when it comes to what comes out of the mouth of Goodwin - yeah, Jack Watts is not to blame...

I'm on board, I am sitting near the front of the bus (I get motion sickness on long journeys) and I am asking 'why did you do that?' 'That's a missed turn...' 'This bus doesn't have enough midfielders'

Goodwin painted himself into the corner here with his, seemingly endless, public comments on Watts that now has Jack answering his exit interview in public. 1st year coach alright.

This. 2016 is as good as we are getting and I will take it. If he stays...

Actions speak louder than words (however they are interpreted). If he stays - he is willing to improve and listen to the coaches instructions. If he goes - he wants to go somewhere that values him more than we have valued him. Because of his contract situation - he can make the decision he wants to make. It would be very difficult now for him to stay at a club that wants him to leave, but he can make that decision if he wishes. It is not without precedent.

Not here to defend jumbo. Don't like it when history gets rewritten. End of story.

You are claiming it as a joke after the fact, that's a Level 4 offence on Land, book him @Nasher...

You are either showing your age or your emotional maturity - no player has copped more than Jack Watts on this board or with MFC fans.