Grr-owl

22 hours ago, A F said:

Greater efficiency and balance from stoppage and contest.

But that will only happen if the player who replaces him provides that. Who is that player?

Can't understand why anyone would think we'd be improved by Jack leaving.

On 9/8/2020 at 3:40 PM, Undeeterred said:

Why would he? He's having a ball in the media, probably earning a fortune. He's probably happy he's left this basket case of a club.

Because he isn't very good in the media, and he's got brilliant assistant coach written all over him. it's only a matter of time before he goes to work for some club, better us than another.

He’s a player for ‘Now.’ Are we in the window? Er.....

4 hours ago, NeveroddoreveN said:

Loved much of this thread, and have found much of it fascinating reading.

Our gameplan if system based is really ugly...the players do not know what to do or where to run.  Seems to me there is a complete breakdown of players knowing their role within a shaky system.

Would do better in all honesty with no system, just man on man and try to beat your opponent and impact when it is your turn to go.

We did this for last 12 minutes of the game, had we done it the whole day we would have won by 6 goals.

Tactically we really don't seem to adapt to oppositions gameplans.  Any Joe blow could coach this mob with better results just playing man on man and backing our players abilities.  Give me a packet of chips to do it, i would instil more passion and sytem that we are currently seeing.  Would not need 4 years to implement it either!

I sense that their heads are so full of horse*hit pyscho-babble micro-management bollocks that they're mentally fatigued to the point that they can't find the energy to actually do it.

4 hours ago, A F said:

I stress that I'm only speculating here, but whilst there might have been some good ideas from Goodwin, it seems to me the way those ideas and messages have been communicated, particularly vis a vis culture, expectations and structures, has meant the players seemingly don't fully buy in.

I'm totally with you. I suspect that the corporate PR management-speak that he dishes out in press conferences manifests itself within the organization as performance reviews, vision documents, all kinds of other micro-management horses*it that results in people groaning in mental fatigue in front of screens, ticking and not-ticking  boxes.

I have a feeling that Lockhart was dropped because some box somewhere wasn't ticked; otherwise I can't see a reason why the successful backline of Harmes, May, Lever, Tomlinson, Salem, Lockhart and Hibberd was disturbed (okay, Harmes was being wasted in the first place) and Smith brought back in to play where he has only failed. I can think of more examples.

I want to get off my chest why I think this kind of thinking is so bad. I work in an English Department at a University located somewhere between Beijing and Paris. Last week we were asked to analyze the top ten English departments around the world and develop a step by step plan to bring our department into alignment with them so the university can achieve its goal of being among the best in the world. Whatever we come up with will need to be cross referenced and aligned with various local and national goals as articulated in a multitude of other action plans and vision documents and requirements of accreditation bodies and so forth.

Well, you might be able to guess the immediate and overwhelming obstacle to achieving that goal: our students aren't the best in the world. In fact, some of them make it into my classes without being able to write a coherent sentence. And yet, we are required to endure the grind of producing that document, devoting time and energy that could be better spent on genuinely productive stuff such as..... let me think.... hmm... teaching them how to write a coherent sentence. 

Somewhere some people in the organisation are fooling themselves. That's the f*@#ing problem.

I dunno which thread to write this in and I don't want to start another, so I'm going to say it here, flaky as it is. I've sensed in the last few injury videos that Burgo kinda feels like he's wasting his time. Seems a serious bloke when it comes to his business. Just a feeling. Hope I'm wrong.

5 hours ago, A F said:

I'm not interested in turning this very thoughtful thread into a Goodwin bashing zone, but I couldn't see any system tonight.

I was worried when the wind was up and about today, and then it started pouring early. 

The lack of work rate for most of the match made it difficult to judge, but I legitimately could not work out what we were trying to do.

Ben Gibson talked about using the far side of the ground to transition the ball and ensuring we were careful with our ball movement down the opposite side of the ground. I saw nothing of that.

Outside of that Collingwood win in the rain earlier in the year, I cannot actually remember the last game we won in the wet. Our game style breaks down terribly when we play in the wet, because it relies on handball from clearance or the back half. We need to be able to identify the conditions or the likely conditions the game will be played in and have solutions and a clear plan for the game. 

I'm not saying for a second that we sat around in Cairns for 3 days doing nothing, but Fremantle owned the far side and the corridor, were cleaner in possession, had better ball use and kicked to the right spots inside 50.

Our midfield mix is not getting the job done either and our forwardline has really struggled when Weideman has struggled. It seems like the players are more haphazard with their delivery to him, the less contests he gets to or halves. 

It's going to be a long off season.

Where were the options? It was just long, long long, no movement, no run..... The game this thread has so beautifully teased out seemed forgotten. What can explain this ongoing lack of awareness?

4 hours ago, nosoupforme said:

Alan Richardson  with a second stint at coaching could be a nice fit for us. He won't take any crap. He is well respected  and will bring in a new game plan and pick up some skillful players along the way that can kick. 

Alan..... stop masquerading as nsoupforme. We've had it, okay? Back to the rumpus room...

18 hours ago, Hogan2014 said:

Would be great to hear from Jordan Lewis who come from winning 4 flags plus 3 in a row as to what he saw/felt were the differences in culture between the clubs.. 

We got to get him back into the club ASAP. 

Well, Optus is clearly the best ground, but politically the Gabba is the place to hold it. Having said that, having it at Optus might just mitigate the sense of alienation and discrimination the West feels and be thererefore worth it for that. Eh... the Gabba management have been unhelpful to footy over the years, so give it to them and give them an opportunity to appreciate it, if for nothing more than the flood of money it would bring to the organization.

23 hours ago, binman said:

Agree. Which is why we are not yet a top 4 team. 

To invoke a cliche, it would be about which is the better team on the day, and we aren't that consistently enough.

Polec or Williams or Saad. Heard On the Slouch that Saints and Blues are going hard for Williams....

Just wanna give a nod to Binman for opening this thread, then to he and EO and AoB and AF and everyone else who've chipped in. I'm now convinced that Goodwin is onto something that will gives the team an advantage. Now all we need is a couple more players to lift the skill level, a bit of development, and the confidence to implement the plan under pressure. A couple more seasons and we could be top four consistently... 

6 hours ago, pitmaster said:

C'mon we've all been there. Think of it as a bonding experience, something all can relate to.

First time I’ve been thankful that Viney doesn’t have any outside run...

9 hours ago, Pickett2Jackson said:

 

Maybe hes tired...  he is an iron man but hes human.  I don't think he has missed a game since he debuted.

He looked it. Heavy legs at times.  

2 hours ago, A F said:

If we bring the work rate, tackling's important, particularly in midfield, but two-way running to ensure we cover the ground properly is more important

Do you think Oliver ran enough? I saw him plodding along behind the ball a number of times, never catching up. Acurally I pondered if he was injured.....

I am fighting my anxiety with positive thoughts. In other words, I’m begging for a win.

8 hours ago, Engorged Onion said:

I know you're been playful here - but it's not Woo woo - it's as if genuinely feeling your strong uncomfortable feelings is problematic in certain contexts! Not when there is death or grief as an example...but on the football field, well THAT's problematic (i say with a rye smile) - only because coaches, players, etc have it culturally embedded not to show 'weakness' whatever version of weakness that is.

 

I once said to a premiership player  what would it be like for your entire team to genuinely accept the fact that football, and finals campaigns was arduous, and at times anxiety provoking, and it could be spoken about ie: pre game in the rooms

Have a read through these two vignettes - is there a different vibe?

P1: How you feeling?

P2 : Pretty anxious mate!

P1: Yeah , I get it, that makes sense, well, have your anxiety and go out and smash it

vs

P1: How you feeling?

P2 : Pretty anxious mate!

P1: [censored] mate, harden up, dont worry about it, you'll be fine

 

Id argue there is a marked difference, in how P2 would have felt

 

Anyway, the players response to me was "it would have been liberating"

If you're all on the same page (power structures from captains who talk about their anx) about the emotional reality of being under scrutiny week after week, then all of a sudden, the emotion (in this case anxiety) becomes less problematic in of itself.

I reckon. The mere fact of acknowledging it would mean that blokes individually and as a group could discuss strategies for dealing with it. Given our team’s inconsistency, I wonder if something could be improved on that front — could the psychological realities be more honestly addressed???

4 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I can't recommend this book highly enough. Goes into the history of tactics since the games inception covering the critical evolutions across Vic, WA and SA as well as the rule changes by the ANFC

The Guardian article is awesome. Will have a go at getting the book. Now I know that when I sensed a team of scientists had been brought in to study the game while my back was turned (18 years or so) I was not entirely off. 

Was also pleased to read about he blowback re rotations. Had long suspected it must have been very tough to change attitudes about that. Even now we hear Carey and others declaring their failure to understand why teams bring players off after kicking goals. It’s simple: it’s better overall to bring a bloke off when he’s done something good than when he’s done something bad. Psychology.

6 hours ago, Engorged Onion said:

100% it's mindfulness. It's often taught to calm down/relax. But this is problematic as it teaches experiential avoidance.

What's the nature of sport? It's uncomfortable, we know it intellectually, but when the experiences arise (anxiety, fatigue etc) - we don't necessarily want to have it, and we engage in internal or external behaviours that move us away from what's useful.

Essentially, if you don't know where you head is at, you've got no capacity to bring your attention back on to the relevant task at the time.

That's the notion of performance consistency - its not about NOT getting caught up in things, you will, but noticing that you are to bring you attention back time and time and time and time again, irrespective of what is showing up...and shortening the gap of how much time you are NOT aware of what you're getting caught up in.

Then it starts to feel easier, and you are executing, and as a consequence, feeling better, more confident, and the upwards spiral.

Great post. Great article. Useful advice in any walk of life. And, yes, mindfulness is more than achieving a desirable state of mind, it’s about pure observation.

I might derive from it a conclusion that our team needs to embrace the experience of footy, the positives and negatives, the ups and downs, the pain and the pleasure, as a totality, and understand that whole as a positive. That’s getting a bit woo woo, but I reckon you know what I mean.

At this point I want to bring something up which I reckon has damaged the group. The pain of the Prelim loss against WC was allowed to linger. I think it has given the group an anxiety of winning. That is, once their performance is high, they embrace the result for a while, but then at the back of the mind is the knowledge that high performance leads to pain, and bad practice creeps in. Not sure what the term is — Success Anxiety? Perhaps this mechanism is also at work in the the drop off of Adelaide after a GF loss, and GWS, possibly.

Gee, we’re getting into some meaty stuff now...

I find the difference between perceived effort and actual effort fascinating. When you’re up and about, you can go and go and go and it feels easy. But when you’re flat, just getting out of bed can leave you breathless. Everything seems a chore, but you’ve done bugger all.

The best performers in any field narrow the gap between their best and worst by combining technical proficiency with mindfulness. That is, they have elite skills that shine when their confidence is high, and when their confidence and energy is low, they are aware of it and take steps to rectify the situation or, if not that, to maximise their performance given the circumstances. Hard work, that.

Nobody can be always on top of their game. That is the dynamic which makes test cricket so fascinating. Even Hendrix blew hot and cold, but nobody ever worked harder at the fundamentals than he. Interesting to note that friends knew he was in trouble when he began turning up places without a guitar; he’d stopped working so hard and lost his way.

Where do energy and confidence come from? The players have to work that one out in their own minds.
 

He was a gun at Port and I was stunned we didn’t go hell for leather for him. I s’pose we couldn’t match what North were offering, which was overs, so no contest. Now that he realises Norf is nowhere near what he expected, his performances have dropped, but his competitive spirit might still crave a club that needs him and could help him reach his potential. MFC should do all they have to to get him and Zac Williams.

58 minutes ago, A F said:

I really believe work rate is the key to getting the game played on our terms. We just don't bring it consistently enough

Spot on. 

Two things: 1. Work rate. 2 Consistency.

I reckon 2 will come when the team realises that 1 is the only way to a premiership, and that will bring confidence.

Agreed. Regarding confidence, what I saw last week was the team reverting to poor practice under stress. That is, for three weeks they tried the system, found that it worked and so were encouraged to continue. It even worked against the Filth, happily, though diminished as they were. But then, against a determined, energetic, committed and physical opposition, we lost faith.

There was a moment in the 4th when we were coming... Trac dashed from the middle, thought again, Hollywooded a handball instead of kicking it, which resulted in a turnover that led to the final Dog goal. My gut turned. Hope drained from me like an Englishman's bathwater... 

So, IMHO, we have the right system. We just need one or two more players to fit the necessary roles, a season or two for others to develop... and to trust ourselves under pressure on the big stage.