Lord Nev

No I love Viney. Hate his kicking inside 50, but love him otherwise. Interesting you talk about bias and inventing things...

Which is what I said.

The Perth one I'm pretty sure. Edit - Just looked up to make sure, and Hurn and McGovern had a total of 25 marks in that game (including 19 intercepts). Geez. BUT I might have remembered incorrectly about the total of marks from Viney kicks directly.

When we played West Coast last year Hurn and McGovern combined for double figures in marks purely from Viney kicks. But sure, he 'bleeds red and blue' so let's not talk about it. Adding an edit because there seems to be an echo in here - It wouldn't have been double figures as Viney only had 9 kicks for the game. Hurn and McGovern took 19 intercept marks in that game however.

Problem is, in 2019: MFC ranked 5th for inside 50s, yet.... Ranked 17th for points scored. Ranked 17th for opponent rebound 50s. Ranked 4th for turnovers. Jeff Garlett lead our marks inside 50. Rebounding footy has never been more prevalent than it is now, so it's not just about territory anymore, it's about efficiency.

Viney's kicking is a liability. Rated as worst in the league for retention inside 50. He's a finals-built type player though, so if he can get his forward delivery up to average then the whole thing changes.

B: Jetta May Hibberd HB: Harmes Lever Salem (Obviously with a few rotations, but that could be a starting 6)

I love Hunty, has some assets that if; used properly and put in a role where he can utilize them; make him a weapon, but looking at the changes we've made under Goodwin he just strikes me as one that could be on the line this year. Given our well noted disposal and skill problems, I don't think just being fast is enough to keep you safe anymore, which is why I think the Frost example fits Hunt for now. He'll get a chance to show he can be more than that this year, so it's a big year for him in that way IMO.

Frost finished ahead of him in the best and fairest, where is he now?

Frost traded out, now Hunt seemingly out of favour. Will take a big turnaround to un-stamp his papers IMO.

Sure, but it directly lines up with the timing that is being talked about in the original post. Wouldn't take much to get the fans excited again after 2018, so a few wins on the trot could see a membership bump.

We did win 3 out of 5 games between April 11 and May 11 though....

We set the precedent last year which is why there's more attention/awareness about a similar situation this year. Haven't seen many media types that haven't tipped us to bounce back, so clearly it has been seen as an excuse for us. Also, Bombers haven't even played a game yet, let alone finish 17th.

Again, your point originally was 'winning will get us a new training base'. And yet again, nowhere did I say winning wasn't priority number one. You really seem to be struggling to discuss the actual point, maybe that's on purpose, I don't know. You have not been able to back up your original point other to start ranting about winning in general, which is not the point. I have presented you with the facts that other clubs, most with lower membership and less 'success' than us have gained new elite facilities while we haven't. You're evidence back has been 'yeah, but winning, and delivering, winning etc'. You deal in pure emotion, I prefer to use factual evidence.

“I was told very early in the piece that Hawthorn were probably going to play a different brand of football this year, they had sped everything up,” Watson told SEN Breakfast. “This was according to a track watcher – my track water. He goes out and watches the clubs for me and he came back and he came back to me and said Hawthorn is going to play fast in 2020. Alastair Clarkson has just turned this thing on its ear.” The "extreme" change Hawthorn has made to their game-plan for 2020

Yeah, can 100% see what you're saying. The impression I've got so far is that we'll rely more on our disposal to do that than leg speed. We seem to be making the backline a bit more safe and predictable. I think with Salem, Harmes, Hibberd, Lockhart and May (who is actually super quick) all back there we'll be ok for run.

Not sure Hunt helps us with our backline disposal problems.

"While talk can be cheap, Hodge, now playing at Brisbane, has “no doubt” the meeting helped Hawthorn win three successive premierships from that point." Leading Teams: The program behind so many Australian sporting success stories

Again, missing and misrepresenting the point. Sure, you probably have 'always said that', but that's not what the point at hand is, so you're moving the goal posts. Again. Gold Coast - Disaster club = New base. North - Won nothing for decades. Less members than us = New base. Essendon - No finals wins for nearly 6,000 days = New base. St Kilda - 1 flag. Less members than us = New base. So no, the evidence does not back up your assertion that 'winning will get us a new base'. It is quite clearly more complex than that. The facts completely go against what you said. Nowhere have I said 'winning isn't a priority' or 'we're trustworthy', you just like to parrot the same rhetoric over and over again no matter what the original point is. There is FAR more to getting a new base than just winning games of football, surely even you can comprehend that?

You're trying to move the goal posts again. You didn't say 'winning is number one priority' and then I disagreed. You said 'winning will get us a new training base' and I disagreed. At least stay on the same point. Trying to change the argument to something it wasn't originally about is incredibly weak.

The comment was 'winning will get us a new training base'. I pointed out plenty of teams who haven't done a lot of winning lately have got new bases, so it's not as simple as that.

I didn't bring in any other factors. I pointed out that all of Gold Coast, Essendon and North (to name a few) have great faciilities despite not winning much in the last 10 years. This was to illustrate that it's not as simplistic as just 'winning games' and there's much more to it. Seemingly, you have one post that you copy and paste no matter what the subject is though.

What was the topic again mate?

So is winning the deciding factor or not then? Bombers haven't won a final for nearly 6,000 days yet they have an enviable base, even Arden St is pretty good now. Think you're oversimplifying things mate.