Demons1858

This is pointless if you are going to flip things all the time ... over it

You said I could quote you. Don't think I need to answer that one.

Prefer you don't put words in my mouth. My comments are very measured. Mahoney has done an outstanding job with others to rebuild our list. Am critical of the Lever deal only. We made a rare 'trade' mistake which cost us a 1st rounder. Off to talk about something else.

You asked how the Gibbs trade was going for Carlton as you indicated being hard nosed doesn't work. Now that it has been an overwhelming success for Carlton you try and flip it the other way ... hypocritical and convenient

Your recent observations appeal to masses but are simplistic jnrmac

Carlton is doing just fine I'd say having started their list rebuild after us. Thanks for reinforcing my point - Carlton just held firm on Gibbs (29 yrs old next year) and guess what Adelaide buckled and paid ridiculous overs. That's what you get for being hard nosed: Under the deal: - Carlton received pick Nos.10, 16, and 73 in this year's draft and the Crows' 2018 second-round pick. - Adelaide received Gibbs, No.77 and Carlton's 2018 second-round and third-round picks.

Rubbish .. of course Adelaide would have buckled ...the market did not say 2 1st rounders ... most industry types have been quoted sayimg we paid over given he is uncontracted. Would have been acceptable to me if he was a contracted player

Does it matter? You can't be serious. Of course it does. Why even have a draft order if it doesn't matter. We are going to get a lesser player next year because we haven't got a 1st rounder. 2nd rounders rarely get you a decent player. We should have got the same trades done for less so its irrelevant that we are easy to deal with. Being hard nosed doesnt seem to have hurt carlton and esse

Thanks oh wise one. Here is one for you, I made this one up myself. 'Most do not pay extra for value that can be gotten for less'

Can you show me one new article where an industry person has indicated we paid under's? I can show you a heap of them that say we paid overs and that's because we did. Also listened to SOS this morning talking about how he expects less trade value for uncontracted players than contracted players like Gibbs.

Can you have an independent opinion without making references to some sort modeled points system which is a guide at best. Points don't consider whether the players is out of contract. Points don't take into consideration that Lever was prepared to go to the draft and put a price on his head. They don't consider their current marketing value. They don't consider their proven (not potential) leadership etc etc. At best, we should be paying a fair bit below what the best player in the comp is worth and it shouldn't be so line ball. Tom Mitchell was a 1st rounder for Christ sake

Thanks for your input fifty. Still doesn't change the fact we have him contracted for 4 yrs on not 10. We expect he will play 10 for someone likely to be us but no certainty. Also doesn't change the fact we paid overs but not by as much as some are suggesting. The best player in the comp came cheaper then Lever The Cats have given up young midfielder Dean Gore as well as picks No.9 and No.28 to snare the superstar midfielder. The Cats gain Dangerfield and Adelaide's third-round draft pick, currently No.50. Gore was recently delisted by the way and was really just the 'steak knives'

Macca, i've seen it before. Clearly your not a data scientist by trade. The sampling is poor and l recall debating that with you on another thread where you rolled out those stats. Not going into it again however as its been done to death Lets agree to disagree. We can also agree that Lever looks the goods and will make us better in 2018

Stats on here have been badly skewed and sampled On average a gun or likely young gun is recruited with every two top picks. Lets hope Lever is a gun otherwise we lose. No player is worth 3/4 top picks including oliver. You can't be serious. If Lever wasn't out of contract then l would understand why we oaid overs

Your actually agreeing with me now 'l reckon ... almost ... ' will. Thats what l said 2 posts ago its not guaranteed but it may be likely. End of convo

What a silly paragraph, shows you have run out of facts to argue. He may not want to extend his contract we don't know

I have no idea if he will go and nor do you or anyone else so its misleading. 4 years will make him a free agent or very close to free agency so you never know Having said that l hope he lives up to the hype. He is an excellent prospect and I think there is a good chance he will be elite and he will need to be

Wow ... that was mature ... your wish is granted however

Last time l checked he was on a 4 year contract not 10

Pro dee, he was out of their club already as you put it. The trade was just a negtiation of what they would get. He is uncontracted and headed for the draft with a price on his head and adel would have softened by next week as they all do in the end. Well done to mfc for attracting him however

Pro dee, no one said we want to keep the top picks we just want to get more in return for current and future 1st rounders in trades. Agree to not stockpiling

Hey rogue, l think you shot yourself in the foot. There are some guns or young up and coming guns on that pick 10 list and to a lesser degree pick 12. Again, work on the sample, exclude the 2016 kids that can go either way. Its clear we are likely to miss out on a gun (on average) with two top draft picks. Lever better be elite, good thing is l think he is

The MFC based sample is skewed and are outliers due to never seen before recruitment, development, and coaching by MFC. Best you get a sample from all clubs to make your point.

All true about the hit and miss stats on top 10 picks but the truth is he is out of contract and using recent example of the market value for big fish crossing clubs as a guide we can safely say we paid overs but not by as much as some suggest. The stats about Hawt, Sydn, Geel are not in context as they were completing an already polished team with mature / free agency recruits Having said that, I don't mind paying a little over if it fills a well defined hole in our list which he does just nicely. Also has massive POTENTIAL upside as a 21 year old that made the all Aussie squad. Suspect we have other business to conduct this trade period and the opportunity cost of dragging this on further might have started to bite so we needed the deal done ASAP

That's how I read it Demons11. I think both clubs agreed to try and take the spotlight off their clubs by making mother hood statements