warren dean

I always enjoy reading your comments, Jaded. They are usually quite well informed. I am a little bemused by the bit above in criticism of Trapper, though. Using this argument we should have just about nobody left on our list. We have no current Brownlow Medallists, current listed players who have won a B&F are JMac twice, White, Robertson, Neitz, Yze (all once each), and our current tally of AA's stands at JMac, White and Yze (all once) and Neitz twice. I would say you have set your criterion a little unrealistically if this is how you judge a players worth. The truth of the matter is, of those players who have been around since, let's say, 2000, almost all have underachieved in relation to what we as supporters believe their ability to be. White has certainly had a number of disappointing seasons, Yze has done nothing since 04, Bruce has actually gone backwards as a player, Green has been nothing more than acceptable, Wheatley has never come on, Whelan has been injury prone, Robertson has been outstanding and disappointing on a quarter by quarter basis for most of his career etc etc. I would say the only two long serving players who could say in all honesty that they have got the absolute maximum from themselves over this time would be McDonald and Neitz. As I have said in other threads, the difficulty for Trapper was that Bailey was keen to make a statement and needed a sacrificial lamb. Trav was the only senior player who another club was prepared to part with a first-rounder for. This is the reality of the situation. I hope CAC makes use of pick 14, but remember, our current underachieving list has been put together by him over the last 10 years.

Cheers for that, Maurie! Yes it did tarnish the image a bit didn't it? Just wondering is having a gambling problem illegal though! My point would be that there have been far more poorly behaved players than Trav so that can't be a (justifiable) reason for his trade. It must have more to do with Bailey making a statement and it could have been anyone of the experienced brigade - White, Green, Bruce etc - but Travis just happened to have the most value so out he went. I loved Trav as a player, and I don't necessarily think the club has done the wrong thing by itself or him, I am concerned though that it could have made a statement with a few others, and I reckon Sylvia might have been a good place to start!

Now I'm happy to be corrected here, but I cannot ever remeber Trav bringing the name of the club into disrepute through off-field hijinks that was reported in the press. I have heard some whispers about his lifestyle but nothing that ever impacted negatively on the image of the club in the broader public. Now let me see - in 2003 our Captain was in the headlines for all the wrong reasons - no dramas though, he was "just frustrated" because we wern't having a good season. Sylvia has been mentioned in despatches on at least three occasions for behaving badly, including domestic violence - he's still here; our alleged "future leader" gets into not one, but two overseas punch ups, but he's ok, the club will talk to him when he returns and then send him to China with the other young leaders as a club ambassador. Double standards abound at the club, hence supporters frustration with many decisions that are made. I've heard people say it's similar to Tarrant - rubbish, Tarrant broke the law on a number of occasions. I don't believe Trav has done that. The reality is, someone high profile had to be a sacrifical lamb at the dawn of the Bailey era. Trav was the only one of the experienced brigade still worth a first-rounder so it's bye bye Trapper!

Correct! Sylvia's first four years have been particularly underwhelming! By the end of year 4 Trapper had achieved significantly more than Colin (despite an ordinary run with injury). The number 3 pick from 2001, whose name shall not be mentioned, had won a Brownlow and played in a GF, been an AA ad won a club BF. Sylvia has a long way to go and he'd make a handy start by getting out of the headlines for the off-field stuff.

Cheers! Let's hope so!

You may well be right, but if you are then Trav is being made a scape goat. Melbourne recruited a 17 year old boy at the 1997 draft and he has known no other life than the MFC since then. It is the culture that has existed at our club (and lack of leadership) that allowed Trav to develop in the way that he did. There are many others equally worthy of being moved on - unfortunately Trav is the only really experienced player still worth a first rounder, so he is voted off the island! Trav did not create the culture, his personality and life style was allowed to develop within the MFC. I'd say the club leadership (playing, coaching and admin) have a lot to answer for.

PGS don't get personal! What I am saying is fact. If it doesn't support what you believe to be the case so be it. We did make the GF 2 years after Neale arrived and had a relatively successful 10 years under his coaching. Hopefully Bailey can take us further. The fact that he has done what he has indicates nothing about a change in culture anymore than what ND did. All I am saying is he seems to be being held up as a demi-god when really his start has been no different to ND's. If it get us to a Prelim next year as Neale did in 98 that will be great. Perhaps you don't remeber ND's arrival but the start to Bailey's career is uncannily similar!!

Doesn't inspire a lot of confidence, does it?

Spot on!

BS! There is an incredible amount of smoke being blown up Bailey by this board atm! What has he done? Let me see, in late 1997 Neale Daniher was appointed coach of Melbourne - he promptly dropped players from the list like Al Clarkson (RUP B&F in 96), Rob Pyman, moved the very talented but erratic (sound familiar) Sean Charles onto Carlton and then recruited Jeff White from the Dockers and almost but not quite recruited a very big name from the WCE (remember how close we were to getting Peter Matera?) Sound eerily similar to what has happened now. Oh, to complete the picture we also traded Nathan Basset to Adelaide to pick up a couple of Crows players - Brent Williams and Matt Collins. A bit like Meesen!! As I see it, so far Bailey has done nothing more than ND did when he was appointed. Don't get too excited yet, and some you really need a reality check!

There have been many negative views expressed about Trapper on this board. I would like to thank Trav for his wonderful contribution to the club - life member, B&F winner and outstanding finals player. Trav also won the Most Consistent Player award in 2005. I have always enjoyed watching you play, and even though at times you frustrated the hell out of us, your skill and talent was never in doubt. In a way there is a wonderful irony to the fact that you were traded from the club immediately after the match in which you had the highest possession tally of your career (42) - traded after a 3 vote Brownlow performance. Probably not too many players who could claim that distinction. The shaggy-haired boy from Chelsea will always be fondly remembered by those true Demon fans. I wish you well at the Lions, and I'll certainly be popping a small wager on you for the 08 Brownlow. Thanks for the memories! (And now we begin the process of peeling off the number 16 from my 6 year old son's jumper-he's still deciding who will replace Trav as his favourite player-the Flash is looking a chance).

Do you seriously think Green has been a better player than Johnstone? Trapper has a B&F (05) and a third (02) as well as a third in the Brownlow. Despite his inability to string together a number of consistent seasons he has consistently been our best finals performer over the years. He has really risen to the big occasion. On the other hand, Green has been an adequate middle of the road performer. His last three seasons have seen him finish 5th, 5th and 4th in the Bluey - I don't think this shows great leadership when younger players like Jones, Bate and Davey have all performed equal to or better than Green. Green has often gone missing, especially when we have been well placed nearing the end of a season and then lost a number of consecutive games. I believe Johnstone offers Melbourne more, but I wouldn't be heartbroken to see either moved on. Anyone who thinks Green is Captaincy material is kidding themselves. He is, as Jack Dyer would have said "A good, ordinary footballer". At 27 early next year, he is not likely to improve, so we have seen the best of both Brad and Trapper.

I am not at all surprised that Trav is up for discussion, what really surprises me is that both radio and news services have reported that he has been put firmly on the table by the Demons (CAC) but that there has been NO INTEREST! I wonder if that means no interest at all, or just nothing that CAC has taken seriously. Seems to be more interest in Miller and Green, which is also fine. If we want to put ourselves in a stronger position moving forward this is the only way. Perhaps this could be the rocket Trapper needs - similar to Steve Johnson last year when nobody wanted him!

According to the Saints recruiter, McEvoy is a ruckman and will always be so. Henderson is a KPP who will develop into a very good one. As he said, it depends where Bailey and Cameron believe the greatest need is. He also rates Masten much higher than Palmer - he compares them to Williams and Healy at the Swans in that Williams was the getter and giver (Masten) and Palmer the receiver. He rates them both top 10 though. I guess we'll have to see what happens, but this guy knows his stuff. He said the Saints would be happy with either if they are still around at 9.

Forget any aspirations of getting Cotchin. It will go 1. Kreuzer; 2.Cothcin; 3. Morton (or possibly Cotchin and Morton reversed if the Tigers get Mitch Morton from the WCE). They are the three standouts (direct from one of the Saints recruiting scouts). He believes Melbourne will go for one of Masten or Lachie Henderson depending on what the Demons see as the greatest need - midfield or KPP. He thinks both will be very good but Henderson may take a little while.

He will play on but I fear he may have gone a year too long. His best use will be as a decoy forward. His marking has deteriorated over the last couple of years, and with it so has his consistency. Our best hope is that other sides still fear him and play their best defender on him, allowing Newton, Robbo, Bate etc a bit more breathing room. A goal a game is about what I would expect next year (around the 30 mark), which is pretty much what G Lyon got in 1998 ( his last full season as he only played a couple of games in 99). He should definitely relinquish the Skippers role. I have loved watching Neita play but it is time for the big fella. I hope Bailey isn't faced with the prospect of dropping him during the season!

An absolutely sensational player - rated him in the top few players of the last 20 years. Every bit as good as blokes like Harvey and Riccuito and probably just below Carey and Hird because of their flags. He started out as FIGJAM and became a statesman. Well done on a great career, Bucks, but I'm not sorry you didn't get that flag!

I agree with just about everything you have said QueenC. I think Miller is an unfortunate victim of a pretty ordinary strategy from our coaching staff since 2004. In that year he was a moderately to very effective CHF. Since then he has never been allowed to settle into a position. He has shown snippets at both ends - a couple of great performances at the SCG on Hall at FB/CHB and a ripping final against the Dockers last year at CHF. Unfortunately for Brad he gets to be our number one hole plugger. I think he would succeed at Sydney because Roos would extend to him the same degree of faith he has in blokes like Richards and Roberts-Thompson. Given the dearth of KPP's I think he is worth holding on to. He is still only 24 and if given the opportunity could develop into a better than useful player.

We need a real development coach similar to Alan Richardson/Brad Scott at the Pies. I have argued this for a while. Collingwood have fast tracked their junior players as well as or better than anyone else because of these blokes. I would like to think that we would go after David Flood (Calder Premiership Coach and former team mate of Bailey's at the Bombers); or if he isn't available perhaps Graeme Yeats (ex Demon who has coached at the Stingrays for the past three years and before that was at Sandringham). Both have good junior development records. I have always rated Flood and I think he would be a good get. The other obvious one would be Chris Scott now that he has retired. Always loved the way he went about it and certainly got the most out of himself.

Sheahan is a MFC supporter but he does a bloody good job of disguising it! Did anyone else hear him about 45 minutes ago on Channel 10's GF Preview. He is on a panel with Caro, Huddo and Andrew Maher when the topic of Judd came up. His line when Caro spoke of the strong word about the Demons - " Why would he want to go to Melbourne?" Caro listed off a number of positive reasons, to which Mike said "Collingwood is still a long way in front!" He is a [censored]!

Demonland, get ready to collect!!

Diablo, you might recall I mentioned in another post on Saturday that Frawley would be required by the WCE if we couldn't provide 2 first rounders. They do want him, but I believe you are right and he has baulked at moving west. Fair enough too! Looks like he will be a part of it though.

Take it for what it's worth Jaded (I know your disregard for SEN) but Greg Denham said on KB's show that the Bombers were pretty much out and that he thought the Pies couldn't do a deal (mainly because no one else would trade with them). He said Carlton were favourites but the Demons are still in it and really believe they are in with a chance. Denham is a bit of a tool, but there you go!

According to Jake Niall in todays Age, John Meesen is keen to return to Victoria next year with the Demons likely to be is destination. He was number 8 pick in the 2004 draft and was recruited from the Falcons. He's a big unit and was a highly regarded junior. Injury held him back this year. Nothing said as to what the Crows want in return. Thoughts?

I don't know Ash, but I guess it's interesting that the Bombers didn't even consider talking to Bailey after he contacted them - especially given his pretty good record as an assistant. I can only guess that they weren't that impressed with his work as an assistant at Windy Hill a few years back. I believe he was told that he didn't have the profile the Bombers were looking for. I don't know if Knights applied for the Melbourne job - but anyway, good luck to him!