titan_uranus

Their hard work in the forward line kept us in it.

How do we accommodate Garland then? Play him forward? Play Dunn forward? If we do either of those, who moves out of the forward line? I'm a big Georgiou fan but if Garland is ready to come back I see him as a strong candidate to make way.

I never said that the fact that others didn't lay a tackle made Watts' efforts better. What I said, which you are confirming, is that lots of people on here are blinded in their hatred for Watts and fail to recognise that he's not the only one out there who is playing poorly in our losses. From the way some talk about him you'd think he was single-handedly losing games for us. If those are registering as tackles in Champion Data's books, then doesn't that make the others who recorded 0 tackles even worse? Again, I'm not defending Watts' game, as he was virtually indefensible today in his effort. But he was not the only one who did not work hard enough, as the statistics show. So you think it's OK that Jetta, Terlich and Grimes, despite being small defenders, did not lay a tackle? You think it's OK that Spencer and Viney, being in the majority of the game's stoppages, did not lay a tackle? Obviously Viney and Grimes had good games today in totality, but the fact that they didn't lay a single tackle all day speaks volumes of why we lost. At least Watts contributed in that regard. What delusions am I suffering from? I'd argue that if you think Watts is the only sub-standard player in our side, then that's delusional.

No, that is not the reality. The reality is we are not giving up in games that, in 2013, we would have. The reality is that we are far more competitive in the middle than we have been of late. The reality is we are restricting team's scores a lot more than we have been able to in the past. The reality is that we are coming from such a low position that being in the game with Gold Coast is, right now, an improvement for us.

Yep, another in the list of many reasons why Clark was so important to us. You thinking Sinclair? Lycett? No thanks.

Ha! I'm the one 'ranting' when you won't even consider the myriad positives this season is delivering?

Yes, true. But his opinion is often pure negativity without any basis on what's going on with the club.

Actually, Watts laid 3 tackles. That was 3 more than Jetta, Viney, Spencer, Grimes and Terlich. Combined. Another example of how people just see what they want to see with Watts, whilst there are plenty of other underperformers in the side who don't come under the same scrutiny.

If you genuinely do not think there are any positives, just give up and leave us all alone WYL. Seriously.

Did not see Sydney's poor start coming. Essendon losing to St Kilda was a shock, but both Essendon and Fremantle had to play off six day breaks after a 32-degree match in Perth; they were always going to struggle, and both lost. Richmond is very average, so not surprised there, but they've had a soft draw so far and haven't done a lot with it.

I think I feel the same - we either have to commit to Fitzpatrick or Gawn and play one of them. I think that's a better outcome for the team than Pedersen (I mean, I'd rather see if Fitzpatrick can make something as a forward than play Pedersen there, who we already know is not good enough).

I see our ruck situation as one of the more pressing issues we need to look at (not that it's the only one though). Pedersen needs to play defence, he's so much better down there. But we appear to feel hamstrung in that regard as we need him as the second ruck, which means we have to play him forward. What can we do to fix this? Can we carry two of Spencer, Jamar and Gawn in the side? Is this where we need Fitzpatrick to develop? IMO, we cannot risk Hogan in the ruck, ever, and Dawes showed at Collingwood that he's no good as a ruckman. I don't think we can go long term with two of Spencer, Gawn and Jamar in the side, but we may have to, as I also don't think we can go with Pedersen as a forward-second ruck.

I'm not dissing Georgiou, I love him. But today he was down on his previous form. Got beaten on the lead a few times and shown up for fitness. To be expected though! As we were saying, it was unfortunate that on the same day he was down, McDonald was down too. Your bias towards Georgiou isn't your only bias though; the relevance of Watts' poor game is non-existent when we're discussing whether Georgiou was good or not.

A lot will depend on how the boys at Casey went today, but at this stage I'd think the candidates for the outs column are: Terlich - I genuinely do not see him adding value right now. Must go back to Casey and learn to kick Jetta - nothing there today, not sure what he is in the team for and not sure why he played Watts - sometimes players need to be dropped as punishment almost, and that applies to Jack I think Evans - either drop or play a full game; probably would prefer the former Georgiou - got found out a bit today, though I'd probably keep him Salem might be ready, but we don't want to rush him in. I think Clisby has earned a recall, whilst hopefully Kent and/or Garland are ready to come back. Toumpas might be ready too, not sure though. The ruck is also an issue - Pedersen needs to play back, not forward, but we still need him to ruck. Not sure if we can play Jamar along with Spencer, but we need to work on this second ruck position, because we're losing out with Pedersen in the forward line just to ruck.

The speed is a killer. Matera, Hall, Ablett of course, Harbrow, just ripped us up through the middle. Not sure where the speed injections are going to come from though - Salem is one, but who else?

I really think that video is a bit unfair and a disgrace from us supporters. He was really bad today, Watts, but that passage of play isn't that bad and it would have happened to 15 others today. At least he laid a tackle today! We had 5 players notch up a big fat 0 in the T column. People give it to Watts partly because he deserves it, but partly because they're biased. He was not the only player today to play poorly, so why is he the only one to get shamed on YouTube?

I freaking hope so. Deserves so much more respect in the AFL community than he gets.

I didn't think JKH looked lost at any stage today. I at least saw him getting involved, unlike 3 or 4 others.

Agreed - it's not usually the backline that's the problem, but it was today. Haven't seen TMac get soundly beaten in a long time, but that happened today. Georgiou played his worst game for the year, whilst Dunn and Terlich continued to turn it over coming out.

Nope. Not today. Today was the Dunn of old - his kicking out of the back line was woeful, too many times he went with the 'I can kick 50 metres, let me show you' kicks, which go a long distance but go straight up too. Having a good year, but today was not a good game from Dunn. Prefer him forward, I'd like to see Roos work on a way to get him forward and Pedersen back.

I generally agree that people are far too harsh on Watts and often see what they want to see with him. Many fail to recognise his good work, his running and positioning, his frequent leads that are not honoured, and his clean disposal. However, today there were a number of incidents in which Watts just didn't go hard enough. You do not need to be Nathan Jones or Daniel Cross to be able to go hard for a tackle or throw your body on the ball, and too many times today Watts didn't appear to want the ball enough. It's a consistent problem with him, one that I believe he's moving away from. Today was a regression in that regard.

Grimes, Viney, Spencer, Jetta, Terlich - none of these players laid a tackle. Last week, Spencer and Viney had 5, Terlich had 4 and Grimes 2. That's 16 down to 0, with the addition of a player. Major reason why we dropped off (especially given Spencer and Viney are in most stoppages and Grimes and Terlich are in most defensive 50 contests).

Who was worse? He gave us almost literally nothing. His 'defensive efforts' were what, exactly (he laid 0 tackles)?

Cannot agree with that assessment of Spencer - he was beaten in the ruck today and his hit outs were relatively useless. Bail was alright, not our best but not our worst. Plenty of players below Bail in the pecking order.

I thought our midfield today was a large reason for our loss. Second quarter clearances we were totally uncompetitive in. Spencer gave us nothing today, which didn't help. Agree with the sentiment though - we're now playing competitive footy at least, even with a side like Gold Coast who are pushing for a finals berth.