titan_uranus

When we lost Hogan we had TMac who had kicked 53 goals in 20 games and we had Weideman who had taken the finals by storm. But we had OMac and Frost as our key defenders. Hindsight, hindsight, hindsight. Agree with this. Smith and TMac just stood in the defensive 50 doing nothing. Presumably crossing their fingers that Lever would find a magic target on a wing full of Carlton players and they'd be OK. Too often we see too many of our players failing to gut run when we need it. TMac is a senior player. Inexcusable. We see it from Jones, Brayshaw and Oliver as well. It's not good enough.

Of all the football I've seen so far this round, our first quarter is the best so far. Pity our second half was the worst I've seen so far this round.

Agree. He has the ability to take the ball in a stoppage and burst his way out, but then to use the ball well after that. Oliver and Viney are capable of bursting from a stoppage but rarely seem to be able to then damage with it. His third quarter goal was sublime as well.

I've just watched the final two minutes again (here). It starts with Carlton bringing the ball back after Fritsch's miss. Our zone is woeful. Jones and Brayshaw are guarding space leaving Fritsch to defend three Blues. Docherty's poor handpass stops them getting it out. Then Salem kicks to Melksham who can't get the ball over the line, it comes back to Salem who gets crunched, and when Carlton get possession you hear Garry Lyon say "oh, they're out". Why? Because we've pushed our defensive zone so far up the ground that we've left space out the back. Walsh's kick to Mackay is Melbourne-esque and Jetta gets the free. He looks to go down the line, Viney and Hunt are open near the boundary, but I think (and maybe I'm being generous here) he mis-kicks it so it goes in board. Still, Petracca is there to take the uncontested mark, but fluffs it (maybe his only mistake all day, to be fair). Ball gets back to Walsh who, MFC-esque again, fails to see Casboult on his own and kicks it straight to Lever. Lever then, correctly, looks down the other wing which is where he should be kicking it. No one leads there other than Fritsch. Meanwhile Joel Smith is standing in the goalsquare telling everyone to pause. Most of our forwards/mids are stuck on the other side of the ground and appear too tired or unwilling to get across to help Lever (Brayshaw is, again, in no-man's land). Lever is forced to kick to the 2-on-1 but the Carlton player runs under the ball and we're able to clear. Langdon and Tomlinson gut run into the 50 to give us options and that's enough time off the clock to win. One poor kick (Jetta's, but possibly a mis-kick rather than a bad choice) but the poor defensive positioning and lack of running was a bigger problem.

This is your big point? In a round where Collingwood scored 0 goals in 2.5 quarters and combined with Richmond for 10 goals in perfect football conditions, Hawthorn scored 1 goal in a half, and West Coast scored 1 goal in a half against a bunch of teenagers?

As is often the case on Demonland, everything's binary. It's either the coaches, or the players. IMO it's both. We have a group of players who regularly fail to execute basic football requirements (two-way running, defensive pressure, holding uncontested marks, decision making under no pressure, getting back behind the mark, zoning, communicating with one another to stop three players flying at the ball, leaders disappearing). But we also have a coaching group which is failing to fix those problems and has, I think, doubled-down on a rigid style of playing which exposes us to losses when we're not at 100%, which happens all too regularly. Both sides are at fault and both sides need to improve.

Too simplistic IMO, binman. The mid-forward connection issue is a real one and it's more than just foot skills and pressure. It includes forwards knowing when to lead and where to lead to, keeping a forward structure which doesn't continually get sucked up the ground, having forwards who can crash packs and bring the ball to ground (and/or hold marks). It's not all as simple as opposition pressure and foot skills. Yesterday wasn't about our mid-forward connection, though. It wasn't a case of us having repeat inside 50s going to waste. It was a case of our midfield losing control and being unable to get it back, combined with a lack of forward/midfield defensive pressure.

If I had to choose between us bravely holding on or Carlton completely stuffing it up, I'd go with the latter. Heaven knows, as an MFC supporter, I know what a side choking in the final two minutes looks like.

Yes I think this is harsh, ridiculously so. The issue I have with Bennell isn't his output. Anyone who expects him to be tearing the game up had unreasonably high expectations. The issue I have is that we're playing him knowing he's not fit enough to play much more than 50% of the game. Jackson's barely fitter. And we had Rivers as a first gamer and were planning on having Pickett as a second gamer too. We're really going in with 20 or 21 players when Bennell and Jackson's combined fitness isn't the same as a standard AFL player. We're not good enough to be able to do that, IMO.

The more I think about Goodwin's comments, the more frustrated I get. There are two quintessential current-MFC ways to lose: dominate inside 50s but fail to score, conceding easy goals out the back because our entire 22 are in our forward half locking it in; being beaten in the middle and failing to turn the tide. The "mid-forward" connection thing is what goes wrong in the first such problem, but not the second. When we dominate inside 50s and score, we get 2018 MFC, which is what we got today in the first 1.5 quarters: a 42 point lead in that amount of time is nothing to be sneezed at against any opponent. Goodwin continues to try to get us playing a game that relies on ruck/clearance/CP dominance and locks the ball inside the forward half. If we don't dominate in those areas, we seem to be incapable of winning.

Is it a non-issue? I'm not sure. We played awfully for 2.5 quarters. We held on despite momentum being against us for over an hour. Yet our players walk into the rooms so keen to sing the song, they don't even look around to see if everyone's there! They just can't help themselves. I accept it was our first win in nearly 12 months, but IMO there is something wrong with some of our players failing to realise their captain (newly appointed, never won in the role before), as well as Tomlinson and Langdon (new to the club, never won with us before), were there. I actually think it's an issue of some importance.

Was that even our main problem? We built a 42 point lead on dominating the ruck and clearances. When Pittonet started breaking even with Gawn and Carlton's mids started getting clearances, everything else fell apart. Our mid-forward connection was a big 2019 problem, but so was our inability to respond to our opponents changing things up and taking away our CP/clearance dominance (which was what got us to the 2018 prelim). That, coupled with "leaders" missing (Jones, TMac, Melksham, Brayshaw, arguably Viney), were far worse than our forward-mid connection today.

I agree with the problem, but not with the argument that OMac is part of the solution. We had this exact same problem last year when OMac was in the side. IMO the problem is that we lack a defensive unit which plays as a unit. The better sides' backlines work together so much better than ours does.

6 - Petracca 5 - Gawn 4 - Langdon 3 - Rivers 2 - Oliver 1 - Hunt

I just do not see what you see, dazzle. I know you're not the only one, but I thought Smith was our worst defender today by a mile. Lever cops it because we spent two first round picks on him but Smith was so much worse. If we're going to drop a defender IMO it has to be Smith, but I'm inclined to leave the backline as it is, with one exception: get Harmes out of there. Surely Lockhart can play Harmes' role? Harmes goes into the middle where someone has to go - Brayshaw is in line to be dropped IMO. I love him, but he and Oliver are emblematic of our problem: sub-standard defensive pressure when we need it the most. Hunt and ANB were pretty poor for 2.5 quarters but as they kicked 5 of our 8 goals, I can't see them getting dropped. Jones and Melksham, though, should be in trouble. Pickett and AVB could be replacements? I'd also look at Weideman in place of TMac or Jackson (TMac deserves to be dropped but Jackson just doesn't look ready).

The problem with Lever isn't his ability. It's his role within our defensive unit overall. Like almost every player in the league, he has weaknesses, and they get exploited when: 2-3 of Smith, May, Jetta and Lever jump at the same ball; May and others shank kicks coming outside of the back 50, opening us up on a quick rebound; our mids/forwards don't put the requisite level of pressure on the opposition, meaning they get to pick and choose who they're kicking to. Lever is essential to holding our defensive unit together but when the other cogs break down, he does too. He isn't very good one-on-one but if we're playing well, he doesn't end up one-on-one very often and the ball isn't coming in to our opposition forwards' advantage. He can do better, but there are much more significant issues in our midfield and forward line than there is with Lever.

It's hard to see us having a good season based on that. We were utterly dominant for 1.5 quarters. Our pressure and clearance work was A-grade. The connection between Gawn and the mids, the connection between the mids and the forwards, and the pressure in the forward half of the ground, was exactly where it should be. But in an all too familiar tale, our opponent adjusted to what we were doing and when they brought us back to the pack in our "one wood" areas (ruck dominance, CPs, clearances), we went to water. We will never get anywhere as a club if we cannot respond to our opponent changing things up to nullify our strengths. We will not make finals, or win them, if we can only produce A-grade football when the game is on our terms. We have to learn how to respond to opposition challenges. There's a lot of heat on our backline. IMO, there were areas where our defenders were poor (May's kicking, Joel Smith in general) but a lot of the problem was that our forward/mid pressure disintegrated so the ball was just coming in with too much ease. Reality is they didn't generate that many scoring shots from tonnes of inside 50s so the defence wasn't completely terrible. Same old same old with the mids and forwards though. Oliver and Brayshaw look great when we're good, but seem to get run around when we're on the back foot. ANB and Hunt gave us a lot in the first quarter but disappeared completely in the second half. Melksham looked disinterested, TMac is either unfit or down on confidence, or both, but should be dropped, Jones was nowhere, Bennell has touch but isn't fit enough to impact the game. After quarter time it felt like Fritsch was double-teamed and we had nothing unless we put Petracca down there, which was robbing Peter to pay Paul. I don't understand Jetta on Mackay - Mackay didn't dominate but it just makes absolutely no sense. Jackson has all the promise in the world and I'm beyond excited that he's on our list, but if Weideman couldn't get selected in front of him based on what Jackson showed today, I'm scared for where Weideman is at. Loved Rivers: he does enough right that IMO we can deal with his errors. Petracca was exceptional, Gawn was generally good (but honestly should have dominated Pittonet all day, not just for a half). Better a win than a loss, but we've shown again today that our best and worst are too far apart and our worst comes out too often for us to compete for finals.

You got a source for this? Or are you just making complete [censored] up? And poor though he was, is there any reason to stick the boot in further with the unnecessarily harsh Weetra call?

Very disappointing. Whether you agree with the current COVID rules or not, they are there and the players know they are supposed to adhere to them.

You continue to astound me with your unbridled, unrelenting negativity. Which are the players who haven't been selected who should have? Agree that pressure up the field is key, but so is the way the defensive unit works together. West Coast's back six/seven work very well together, reading each other and covering for each other. Richmond and Collingwood too, IMO. Through constant personnel changes and May/Lever injuries, we haven't had our preferred back six/seven playing together long enough to get them to gel together.

Footy is finally back, and this is what we're discussing?

Couldn't agree more, Scoop. A bit of baby-bathwater going on with this one, IMO.

What are the alternatives? You're not a Weideman fan so I can't imagine you thinking he should be in the side. Who would you rather us have picked? This forward line is about as good as it is going to get for us this year.

I think is a fair way to look at it. I agree that, on paper at least, this side looks better than the Round 1 side. Having said that, if there isn't improvement from the likes of Langdon, Gawn, Oliver, Viney and Brayshaw in terms of their disposal going inside 50, some of these changes won't make as much difference as they could.

No surprises as to Spargo, Bedford or Brown. I am surprised that OMac has gone but I think we suspect Carlton will go in with a smaller forward line and we can cope without him. I'm surprised, but not disappointed, that ANB and Hibberd have been dropped. I'm surprised and disappointed that Lockhart has been dropped. I'm even more surprised that Hunt is in the side. Edit: OMac's not an emergency (Spargo, Hibberd, Weideman and Jordon) so we must be confident in Lever's fitness.