Kit Walker

I agree with all of that. Losing TJ and Green means we are down two attacking midfielders so Dunn would be a more logical choice as he's capable of playing off a wing as well. I'd like Frawley to play a full game at Sandringham, mostly because he hasn't had that sort of game time this season at AFL or VFL level since he was injured pre-season. Even in this very much weakened side, he won't get it this weekend against Carlton if he's selected.

Same hopefully goes for Frawley who hasn't played a full game at any level since the season started.

Wouldn't this rule them out from trading this year? I seem to remember talk of the "Heffernan rule" after he was traded to Melbourne after signing a contract with Essendon mid season. Not sure if it was actually made or just talked about though...

I'm sure Freo just pick a random guernsey every year. A bit rich West Coast wearing an old WA jumper too - maybe Melbourne should wear the Big V next year. Capital of Victoria is as good a claim as any. Rant over. Just frustrated to see MFC wearing a guernsey with very few good memories. As R Flower only played finals in the navy one, I doubt he likes the Royal Blue either.

Heard him speak on 3AW this afternoon. Already very polished in the media on that (admittedly short) performance. Also made it quite clear that he wants to coach at senior level very soon.

I stand corrected.

I'll take that a little bit further and ask if it Neitz thought that the "process" (word used repeatedly in the television interview I saw) in deciding to reappoint the coach was so important and essential to keep it in-house, where was he when the various players came out and said Daniher should be given a new contract? He's a champion of the club but these statements, made the next day after he had (or should have had) the time to consider exactly what he was saying was disappointing. FWIW, I think Melbourne have handled the situation reasonably well. There have been some injudicious comments but when the decision was made, it was made quickly and gave the coach the opportunity to sign off.

That's what cost Chris Grant a brownlow wasn't it (maybe McKernan)? I think tripping by hand been taken off the reportable list but tripping and attempted tripping by foot are still on there. We had plenty of chances to put the game beyond doubt (2.6 in the last quarter - aargh) but you're spot on, the umpires didn't help.

I was at the game last night with Essendon supporters which magnified the pain, but I though Colin Sylvia was an absolute shining light. I haven't been his biggest fan but I would have struggled to be more impressed with his performance in that game. He put his body on the line, his disposal was fantastic and he showed real leadership throughout the game. A lot of players had more of it, but almost every touch he had was damaging. For mine, he was best on ground for Melbourne last night for those reasons.

Carey far too big a risk. Controversy would destroy the whole optimism factor of getting a new coach. With Pagan though, people said very similar things about Sir Alex Ferguson...

Agree totally. In the current environment a player has to be stupid to put themselves in that sort of situation. It may not be fair but that's life. With the rest of the Didak situation, it sounds like he's been very stupid but it's not to the same extent as the Gardiner/Cousins situation a few years ago when they did not cooperate with police. Timing couldn't be worse though

What are the rules for AFL players playing VFL seconds when the VFL senior side has the bye?

That's fair enough. Cost and availability would probably knock him out anyway. Just think he should be considered. Like I said, I'm not locked on any particular option

I don't disagree with your Carey analysis but a part (and I say a significant part) of what made him so influential was his development by Pagan. This is in giving him the leadership role at an early stage and developing tactics to maximise his effectiveness. In relation to draft picks, Pagan took over in 2002 after they had won their first ever wooden spoon. Finished second last the year after but rose to 11th with a very weak list in 2004 and won the 2005 pre-season cup (which means nothing to most people although the 87 night grand final is one of my best memories). I'd say the 2005 and 2006 seasons are very much related to those lost draft picks which were the 2002 and 2003 drafts (1st and 2nd round picks in each year). This is the 3rd and 4th years. Add to that the off field problems and...

I really like Bell but he was smashed by N Brown in the first quarter last week and it gave the tigers a spark. The 7 possessions and 2 goals were in about the first 15 mins too and from memory, two of those other possessions directly resulted in goals. Bell doesn't strike me as a confidence player though (I mean that in a positive way) so a job on Lucas or Lloyd may not be too bad. Probably prefer to give him Lucas as despite Lucas being much bigger than Lloyd, he doesn't seem as strong or as confident/capable of taking marks in a one on one wrestle. Carroll is a better matchup for Lloyd for that reason.

I don't agree with that at all. His record pre-Carlton is fantastic - 5 u/19 premierships with North, a reserves premiership with Essendon before taking North to 2 flags. It's all well and good to say he had Carey but there have been plenty of fantastic players who have not won premierships, even in recent times (Ablett and Lockett come to mind as key forwards). People forget that he made Carey captain at 21 because he has IMO a record without parallel in developing young players. The Carlton situation is also much more problematic because he's coached in a period where Carlton have been destroyed with salary cap/draft pick penalties, the end of the John Elliot era and being white-anted from inside the club to the extent that an assistant coach applies for his job and makes a presentation to the board while he still has it. Even with that into account, the development of Waite and Thornton is impressive and again he is showing his track record of putting faith in quality young players by giving Waite the captaincy for this round. If he's available, and with a year left on his contract that is still highly doubtful, the MFC board would be negligent if they didn't at least consider him. I'm fine with Voss, Harvey, [insert other potentially promising coach's name here] but I wouldn't be at all unhappy if Pagan was coaching the dees next year.

Probably the best explanation of what it means to "tick the boxes" for a coach that I've seen. With regard to Voss, the only queries would be points 4 and 9. All the rest have been shown in his on-field performance for Brisbane and to a lesser extend having seen him on Channel 10 and in the print media. The game plan issue is one I can't answer but the board shouldn't have too much difficulty finding that out in the interview process. The issue of knowledge is probably the only one that may hold him back. He clearly knows the game backwards, but the question is whether he knows the role well enough. A new coach is always a risk but Voss is the equivalent of a first round draft pick IMO. No guarantees but a bloody good chance of making it.

I'm not sure whether you are having a go at me or not, as I'm the only one who has mentioned Connolly in this thread although in the context of ND possibly being considered for the Freo job (unlikely but I don't know how he's rated by the Fremantle board). I agree it is foolish to get a coach just because he was a player at the club and I have never proposed that and would never. Chris Connolly along with Grant Thomas, have failed to achieve acceptable results from two playing lists which I rate amongst the top 3 or 4 in the competition.

It will be very interesting to see if what happened today acts as a catalyst. Connolly is almost certainly gone and there are pretty big doubts over Sheedy (as there are almost every year), Pagan (if he doesn't get to 8 wins) and Laidley (probably if they don't make finals). I'm not suggesting this (very much against it), but it's curious that while the Sheedy-Daniher swap was debated earlier in the year a Connolly-Daniher one wasn't. I know Connolly has been talked about as a possible MFC coach but Daniher did spend time there as an assistant...

Couldn't agree more. As a 10 year coach he deserves a lot of respect for what he's done for the club both on an off the field. Definitely the right decision though. Hopefully in 5 years he will be doing a Robert Walls with Brisbane, talking about premierships won and how he blooded the next generation of stars at MFC that took us there...

To clarify my argument for your benefit, those stats are used because it is generally considered (at least IMO) that finals football is played under the greatest pressure. The Essendon final in 2004 was a game lost by 5 points. Yze was the leading possession winner for MFC and equal highest goalkicker (Robbo kicked 3 straight). In 2005 and 2006 he was used primarily as a FP, HFF and was a contributor. I'm not about to blame him for the Fremantle debacle and I still can't understand how a coach names a player as captain then sends him to the bench. You referred to failure against the Swans. In the game against Sydney last year at the SCG he was the highest goalkicker for MFC and had 13 possessions again playing mostly FP, HFF. I don't want to have a go at other players but there were a lot of highly rated midfielders that were worse and have been in pressure situations but don't get the same attacks that Yze cops. You don't agree with me and I get that. I don't disagree that Yze has become significantly less influential in the last year and a half although I still view him as having value in a Peter Riccardi type role as I posted elsewhere. However, I am not going to agree to a revisionist history of one of Melbourne's best players of the last 10 years that simply is not backed up with any evidence.

Exactly right. Hernia's don't come up overnight so it's obviously something he's been struggling with. I expect to see him next year and I hope I do. The comments about lacking heart, downhill skier, etc are very harsh on him IMO. The biggest game Melbourne have each year (except finals) is the QB game against Collingwood and he's performed on that stage consistently. Also, I'm not sure where the myth of him not performing in finals has come from. 2000 Finals v. Carlton - 25 possessions / 1 goal v. NM - 16 / 1.4 v. Essendon - 15 / 0 2002 Finals v. NM - 31 / 2.2 v. Adelaide - 22 / 1.0 2004 Finals v. Essendon - 26 / 3.4 2005 Finals v. Geelong - 13 / 1.0 2006 Finals v. St Kilda - 16 / 1.0 v. Fremantle - 9 / 1.1 Clearly less influential in the last two years but I would argue that is due to a change in role, and us being smashed in the games against Geelong and Fremantle. And a lack of faith by the coach in the Fremantle game as well.

That sums up my views on Voss as well. There are certain current and former coaches I don't want to see appointed to the Melbourne job. Apart from that, as long as the board go through a proper process to find the person they think can do the job, that's all I'd ask for. Voss should be considered as part of that process.

As I understand it, the veteran's list has a maximum of two players who can go on it. Ours at the moment are Neitz and Yze (not sure if he is on there now or will be in 2008). Probably should be thankful for that otherwise Essendon could have Hird, Lucas, Lloyd and Fletcher all with only half the money counted in the cap!

The comparison between Daniher and Thomas has some validity - both had massively underperforming teams with decent lists. I would say that St Kilda's list is/was significantly better than Melbourne's. Clearly personality conflicts had a lot to do with it but you could still find some justification. The Ross Lyon charge by OTDB is harsh though as it generally takes at least 2-3 years to get a team playing the style of football a coach wants. Also the win over the eagles at Subiaco wasn't bad The jury is out as to whether he can take the saints to a flag in the next 3 years but I'm convinced ND can't with Melbourne.