stevethemanjordan

Why will I be eating humble pie? It's reported we're offering a key defender $800,000 a year who is in a very similar age and experience bracket to both Frost and Oscar McDonald. What does that tell you? If you're suggesting the coaches like the idea of all three playing in the one backline then I'm assuming you see our current best defender in Tom McDonald making permanent move forward from next year onwards? Hell no. Due to unfortunate circumstance, he has been the shuffle-guy because he can play forward and ruck at a better level than the other two. What I see them liking the idea of is the following: Having a really settled and strong defence in Tom McDonald and hopefully Jake Lever as our two main key defenders. Leaving the third tall spot to be an open battle between two developing keys, (Frost and Oscar) who are yet to show anything other than glimpses. (Some weeks three keys will be unnecessary). That is what we need moving forward. Oscar and Frost competing for the same spot so that when they come in, the pressure to perform is as high as possible.

If the reported offer is correct, it's clear the FD don't share the same views as many on here in regards to Frost and Oscar. Especially given the fact that Lever is the same age as Oscar and has played less games than Frost.

It doesn't bother me whether you think I'm being harsh or not. I'm just saying what I see. I mean, I don't really understand those who say "he is improving at a rate I wouldn't have anticipated." It's almost nonsensical to me. Are you happy to persist with what we have in the hope that they'll develop into good enough players? That's not how list management works. It's really simple. The greater the attribute diversity a player has, the greater that player will be. Lever almost has it all and is a key position height. Oscar and Frost don't have great attribute diversity. They were late picks due to that very reason and it's questionable whether or not they'll be anything other than average-okay AFL defenders. Here is a highlights package of Lever, (same age as Oscar) from last year: He had played under 36 games at this point.

I don't believe that's harsh. I see it as the truth, he was a rookie for that very reason. He is raw, his skills are hit and miss. You've named his athletic qualities which I agree are strong. Without Hibberd and Jetta, we'd be an absolute mess down there. We need a key defender who does a lot right most of the time. Hibberd and Jetta provide that. We need a key defender who will do that too.

Frost will never be a quality key defender. He will always remain a 'specialised' one who plays a support role. His footballing smarts and footballing specific skill-set are very average and it's his freakish athletic qualities that get him games. Oscar McDonald is developing very slowly and I have no idea what he'll become. He has no standout qualities at this level and has shown slow improvement. Only in the last month has he started to take some strong intercept marks but he is still really inconsistent in games, especially his intensity and spoiling. Gary Rohan was all over him early on Friday night. Whilst we're still a developing side, the AFL landscape has changed and it's clear that teams can challenge for a flag earlier than once thought. We can't afford to wait and hold hope that Frost and Oscar will develop. We need quality now. This year we have leaked far too many goals through our questionable defence. Frost and Oscar gift goals to the oppo too often. I hope we make an offer for Lever.

Nathan Jones for one? You contradict yourself be stating you rate loyalty yet you give Frawley a free pass because he couldn't handle losing? Odd. If Hogan left after giving us eight amazing years of footy to go home and build a life, I'd completely understand. But of course be devastated.

You seem incapable of grasping such a simple idea and solution that would make all of this so much easier for you. Don't read the thread bro.

Which part of "don't post on a thread you have no interest in" do you not quite understand?

Utter garbage. Adelaide seem to be doing it tough without him sitting second on the ladder and all... Would love for you to find a quote from him stating that he was "homesick". The word 'homesick' infers something very different. He wasn't a young 18 or 19 year old kid when he decided to leave. He'd spent eight years at the club and given them his all. Out of interest, what do you think of James Frawley as a "person"? I mean, I'm assuming that you have no qualms given he played for the team you barrack for?

Put him in Melbourne colours and those who are potting him would be preaching what a great ambassador he is for our game etc etc. The game needs more players of Danger's calibre. Some of the supporter bias on here is [censored] hideous.

Well said, agree with all re: Dangerfield BT as MC, not so much.

Alright, I'll agree my sentence was incorrect. I'm aware Oscar is continually developing, but against West Coast I thought he was back to playing pretty insignificant football as a key defender. He failed to kill balls at times, missed targets and was caught out due to slow reaction time. Whether that's bias or not, I'm not sure. Posters think having a hate-bias for a player is a thing. Really, I'm just looking at each individual effort and role per player and trying to see how much of an influence they have on an overall game. The bare-mins aren't all that much to ask for as a key defender. And aside from half the collingwood game and his game game against the dogs, he was barely cutting it prior to those games which was evidenced by him being named on the extended bench at times. I'll continue to try and play the patience game with him. But I still see flaws in both Frost and Oscar's game that I can't see being ironed out any time soon.

O-Mac is nowhere near quick, agile or aggressive enough in the air to play on Reid. I really don't see a matchup for Oscar this game. He allowed Petrie to kick a bag. Petrie is pushing 50.

He's been ruled out.

O-Mac on either of Franklin or Reid gives me nightmares. Weid in, T-Mac to defence and Oscar out for matchups. Frost on Reid, T-Mac to Franklin and Hibberd to help out in the air. Salem and Garlett the other two outs for Kent and Wagner. Probs won't happen, but I'll feel more comfortable if it does.

Pity, was hoping for Hoges to get up as well as Watts. As admirable and as amazing the last couple of wins have been, I think we'll get done against the Swans. They're starting to hit form and have a super strong side on the park. I think the fact we now have so many of our best 22 out plus sore bodies will make it very tough. Hope they prove me wrong. If we win this and get a host of players back next week, the sky's the limit for us this year. Get up Dees.

^ I too think he's surplus to our needs, even though he seems embedded in the 22 atm. I mean his numbers are thanks to our high possession game but he is just so vanilla. He's not damaging, is a guaranteed holding the ball perpetrator at least twice a game and he runs around at one pace. None of these things are ideal given the outside role he seems to play.

Roos can be as biased as he likes. The more positive press we get the better. Not sure why anyone would want it any other way.

I think we'll see changes based on the fact that this is our third six day turnaround and there'll clearly be some very sore bodies. Management is paramount. Obviously unlikely to be form-based. It's a huge risk carrying too many sore players into a match, especially when it's not needed. I wonder whether or not Salem, Garlett and Hannan were all sore prior to the West Coast game and if them playing sore increased the risk of injury. I don't want to see more go down on Friday night because we're not bringing in enough fresh legs. All of JKH, Kent and Kennedy are playing high level footy in the VFL and Weeds just had a cracker game. For me, Oscar was back to average. I thought of all our defenders, he again failed to kill balls in aerial contests and Petrie and McGovern were able to mark far too easily. Not saying he'll be dropped, but if Hogan and Watts play then Frost and T-Mac are the only two talls needed in defence imo. Unless Tippett comes back.

^ Great news, I hold hope he can get back into the 22 before our prelim. Yeh. You heard me.

God damn Misson/Injury report video won't load for me. Just spoke to an MCC staff member on the phone, expecting a huge crowd. If Hogan does indeed play, it could bump it up further. The bandwagon is well and truly on it's way.

Kent has had a solid couple of weeks now and I can easily see him coming in to provide more pressure in our forward half.

Odd that you feel the need to tell us you know anything at all in that case.

I think supporters fail to understand that not every player on our list will be apart of a premiership or even contribute necessarily. There's a blueprint to an extent to follow in regards to list management and we're clearly at a stage where we need to start to identify missing puzzle pieces to add to our 'core'. Now, obviously some demonlanders will have all of Frost and both McDonald's as part of our core. That is simply a non-objective view of the worth of our key defenders. It's a Melbourne supporters view. Where every player has a place. As far as I'm concerned, none of our three current key defenders possess any significant composure with ball in hand. Frost is an athlete and is still developing basic decision making and kicking execution skills. Whenever he makes a dashing run from defence it's basically a 50/50 whether or not it'll result in a positive bit of play or a turnover. I've said my piece on Oscar and whilst I agree the last one and a half games have been really positive, he is similarly years away from being close to Lever. We have an opportunity to go hard for a player who would help our cause to no end. We're really only a couple of target players away + the natural development of our core to be challenging consistently for a few years. Lever is a big game player already, and a key defender who in my eyes will be the best in the game within three years. Frost or O-Mac won't ever be that. Because they don't possess the attribute diversity that he possesses, regardless of development to date. Which is obviously why he was so highly rated in host draft year even on the back of doing his ACL. Bring him home Dees.