stevethemanjordan

I'm tempted to make a long-winded post in regards to all points, but I genuinely can't be farked so I'll say the following. Your general reductionist view of 'the third tall' means you're unable to see what makes Lever such a truly special player. Given the way the game is now played with zone defences, the need for versatility, agility, marking and spoiling skills are more important than ever when it comes to key defenders. Lever is the number one intercept mark in the AFL at age 22. The same age as Oscar and similar games experience. You grossly underestimate this rare skill he possesses. Knowing when and where to run to make an intercept mark or spoil. He is elite in this area. Better than Hibberd. I'm going to again post a video of a highlights package from his second year. None of our key defenders even come close to impacting the marking contests that Lever wills himself to. Oscar simply doesn't have the speed nor intensity, Frost doesn't have the game understanding or awareness and Tom is similarly hit and miss with contests. Lever is a [censored] amazing footballer at 22 years of age and the reason club's are offering the money is because of how good an intercept player he is. He is the prototype key defender.

$850 would indeed be a steal.

Cool, I take it you don't watch much of him. Perhaps you watched the game against West Coast and made up your mind?

Leads the AFL for intercept marks at 22. Overrated lol.

I find it hard to see how he is 'overrated' given what he is managing at this age. I'm pretty sure he was named in the AA extended squad. It would be like saying Oliver is overrated. But somehow I don't think you'd believe that given your bias. Some supporters have NFI about talent from other clubs. Those who suggest Lever is overrated usually fit that bracket.

Hahaha. Good one. Mate if he was a Melbourne player, he'd be treated like Jesus' second coming.

Good point, didn't think of that.

Am I reading too much into the fact that Frost is listed as an 'out' in the teams listed for Casey's first final? Is he injured? Or has he been told we won't be offering him a contract for next year and he'll be traded..

^ Tune.

Lever is 22 and already plays at an incredibly high standard throughout games. Which is why a fluffed kick here and there is not put under the microscope. The same can be said for Hibberd. He was missing a lot of kicks on the weekend that he usually hits but it everything else he does is at such a high level. The same can't be said for many other players. Tyson, Tom McDonald, Oscar. The list goes on.

Lever is a much more reliable kick than any of our key defenders and his decision making is what sets him apart. Yeh, I saw the turnover he made in the dying stages of the game against West Coast but that was an anomaly. Generally, he is a very composed player with ball in hand and gives to the right option either by hand or by foot. His decision making, awareness and general footballing smarts are way above Frost and both McDonalds. It's part of the reason he went so high in the draft. And part of the reason both McDonald's and Frost went so low in the draft is because they have major flaws in their game. And all of those flaws are to do with decision making and ball use. Oscar is the only one who actually possesses a decent kicking action and execution. But other areas of his game are truly below AFL standard. We need high end talent in our key defensive stocks.

Of course he can. Think Mitch Clarke freo/us. He probably has. Farken.

If people want more of what you saw in the first quarter against Collingwood as well as numerous other games this year then sure, let's draft him. Foot-skills and pace are not his strong points. Forget the romanticism, we wouldn't go near him with pick 10.

You're my favourite person.

Kelly is a gun. But Kelly won't stop our leaky defence. Hibberd has a difficult enough time doing that atm.

Overall, your post misses some really important details and points in regards to this argument. The first point I would bring to light is the significance of draft positions and the specific attributes that all those players you've mentioned either had or didn't have coming into the AFL system. Rance went at pick #18, Richards went at pick #27 and Jones at #32 in their draft years respectively. Frost and McGovern were both rookie picks. Frost was a rookie because of his obvious football-skill specific limitations whereas McGovern was simply the opposite. The knock was on his athletic and physiological capabilities but he had football smarts and was a natural footballer. His fundamentals were sound. Frost was at a disadvantage before he even entered the AFL system. He was a volley-ball/basketballer turned footballer who's very weaknesses have all been football-specific. Foot-skills, ball-handling, game sense, game awareness, handballing, football smarts etc. None of the list you've mentioned had or have the same number of weaknesses in the 'football specific' attributes column. Rance's kicking has been the knock early on, but he is simply incomparable to Frost due to the sheer number of outstanding football qualities he possessed which was evidenced by the fact he went at #18 in his draft year. Frost is in his 6th year and is playing reserves in a side that has possibly the weakest key defensive unit within the AFL. Rance was an AA in his 6th year, McGovern was in the 40-man squad in his 5th year and Jones is currently heralded as one of the best key defenders in the game after having played the position for half the year. Richards is the only one who took his time to find his groove and again that wasn't because of a lack of ability/below average footy-specific skills. By 2010 he was Sydney's best defender, 5 years after his move to the Swans and his move to key defender. Frost is overrated as I've stated. I like the strengths he possesses, but his weaknesses are across the most important attributes one needs to succeed at this level.

It would be close to impossible to land Kelly and Lever. In a perfect world I'd love to land Lever, sign Motlop as a free agent and then hit the drafts/trade for some class and run.

I would bet safely that a list manager would say the complete opposite. A questionable best 22 veteran coming off an ACL injury for the last year of his contract VS a full year of development for a kid. I'd say it's a fairly obvious decision from a 'what's best for the club' perspective. Unless of course they put Garland onto the rookie list.

Again, not here to pot Frost for those who will no doubt believe otherwise. But a question to those of you who highlight his strengths as a player needs to be asked and then addressed. Is there any point in having lightening speed, great athleticism if your fundamental football specific skills are average at best? Yeh Frost has taken some fantastic contest grabs as a defender, but he's also had the same amount of absolute howlers that have turned into opposition scores. Yeh Frost has had some lightening fast line-breaking runs. But he also turns the ball over just as often as he makes those runs. Why do people ignore this when naming his strengths? Maybe because the hope for most is that those footy specific skills will improve enough for him to become a consistent contributor as a key backman? We also have hope that Oscar will improve enough to reach a consistent level. And we have Tom McDonald who at over 100 games experience, still struggles to perform consistently as a defender? Ideally you want high end talent spanning across all lines of your list. Clearly ours is stacked in the midfield and forward line, with little high end talent in our backline and especially our key defensive group. Frost is as expendable as they come right now for us. We have too many 'ifs' and 'hopes' for our three key defenders. Lever being high end talent would transform our backline, I know everyone agrees with that. But what is the obsession with keeping Frost?

Given it's the last year of his contract next year and he wasn't even best 22 before he did his injury, he'd be taking a valuable development year off a draftee. I'd say there's quite some harm in that. Frost is one of the most overrated players on this forum. He'd be absolutely no loss if we got Lever.

It hasn't. I'd say 80% of the thread is about Lever. There's nothing wrong with comparing players anyway. As for which defensive group you'd have, Adelaide's is much better than ours at full strength. Their depth, talent and experience are way above ours.

One can never be certain around these parts.

Take away Jeremy's marking and he's pretty rubbish. Lacks any real natural defensive foundation to his game because he was a forward as a junior. Lever trumps him in most facets of the game by some margin.

^ I find it funny that posters play down the importance of an effective intercept player. Almost as though they have an easier job than a player who doesn't have the same intercept ability. The fact that Lever is number 1 on the list as a key defender at the same age as O-Mac and similar games is mind blowing. Do supporters understand that intercept players also have opponents to play on too? Hibberd is our best intercept player and sits at number 9 on that list and he's arguably now one of our most important players. Imagine having a key defender version of him..