stevethemanjordan

Totally agree AF. We've tried him everywhere and not even the great Paul Roos has been able to transform that mentality of his. The only value I see from him is if he plays that quarter back role which is where I believe he contributes the most. It's a very distressing thing that he hasn't been able to improve any of his weaknesses. Physicality, gut running and urgency are still non-existent in his game.

You need a core group of consistent and regular AFL standard performers before players like Bird begin to perform consistently for your side. Sure he's trying to create all of this. All I'm saying is, I don't think Bird would be a player Roos would target as a means to increase the 'talent' level of our club.

Just because he is best 22, doesn't mean he is a genuine talent. He's no more than a role player who adheres to the instructions given to him by a coach who has a side playing like a unit. There is no chink when everyone performs their role. Bird is hardly a game breaker and he certainly doesn't influence the outcome of matches. He plays a minimal but effective role in the best functioning side within the AFL.How mich better did Mitch Morton look when playing at Sydney and in that Grand Final than he did in his entire career at tigerland? Bird is not the 'talent' that Roos speaks about when addressing our problems.

Good. I hardly think going after him is injecting our list with 'talent'.

Malceski is a must get. A must get. Our backline have the most laughable kicking skills which is the number one reason there's such a discrepancy for inside 50 counts for and against. We consistently turn it over in our backhalf. Consistently. Malceski would have a huge effect and I'd be going after another back flanker who can player hard but can also use the ball and setup play well either at the draft or from another club to slot in and take the Terlich/Grimes spot. (This captaincy thing is an issue). That's clearly a priority. I know there have differing opinions about the worth/value of O'Keefe but I'd also throw him a deal similar to Cross's. It doesn't concern me one bit that he has lost a yard of pace. It's not like he's a David Rodan or a Shannon Byrnes. The bloke is a genuine A grade player with leadership all over him, work ethic, great user of the ball and would slot in beautifully on the half forward line for a year or two. Sydney have a plethora of midfield talent and experienced leaders. Our club is trying to offload spuds and we're still screaming out for that experience, drive and leadership to help cultivate this culture we're striving for. Malceski Cross O'Keefe Dawes That gives you an experienced, hardened and strong group of leaders at every line. Players who have the capacity to help change a club and to bring the young talent through. Then hit the draft for gun mids or do another Tyson trade with the Frawley pick and our second rounder for a gun young player and another chance of nabbing a great mid inside the top 10-15. Imagine that off-season. Malceski O'Keefe Shiel (insert talented young mid) Petracca or Brayshaw Pick 10-15 Billy Stretch Then we've got Hogan to look forward to. An injury free Trengove who will hopefully show us why he was rated so highly The possibility of Clark coming back... (Too far?) It's so incredibly sad that I'm already excited to see how the offseason pans out. Roos knows how hard he'll have to go to get quality experienced players in as well as quality youngsters for us to flush out the trash that is still running around.

On you chip. First decent act of leadership I've seen from you all year as a supporter.

I'm giving my opinion of what Roos is thinking behind closed doors. What he says to the media about the Frawley situation means zero. Of course he's going to say he wants him to sign. Saying that is in the best interests of the club.

When you pick two ambiguous throwaway lines/examples and isolate them from the context they were used in, translation is easily lost. But I'm glad you're wanting more detail. I'm assuming you're quoting another poster about the 'underperforming' because it's not the word I used. I believe I said something along the lines of Frawley has displayed some worrying habits and efforts throughout games this year which are a concern because he is apart of the leadership group. When posters use the word 'underperform', I imagine they've seen some of the things I'm talking about. Sacrificial acts, desire to chase and harass, block, second and third efforts. All of those non-negotiables that build and bind the strongest clubs. Frawley has absolutely 'underperformed' in some of those areas this year. He has absolutely looked disinterested at times this year when it comes to wanting to perform those team acts. No doubt about it. If you disagree with this, I urge you to go back and re-watch some games this year and keep an eye on Frawley and when the ball is in his area etc. When you have a bloke in your leadership group displaying disinterested behavior of that kind, no matter how 'insignificant' you might think it is, it has a ripple effect. On younger guys. On guys who like (Frawley, Sylvia, Gysberts, Blease, Cook, Watts etc) don't quite have the philosophical or psychological knowhow/skills to break free of the impressions and examples their senior players and leaders are themselves subconsciously setting. Those younger players then think that it's acceptable behavior and eventually they themselves become conditioned to playing at that intensity, with little clue of what they're doing wrong. As for players who are more 'self-driven' like Viney, Jones, Dawes, Hogan etc, things like this are indeed less of an issue. But that's not the point. Personalities are different and you get a different one to your club every year. The MFC have given birth to this toxic, unprofessional and 'kick in the park' approach to AFL which isn't all a result of the players. It started at the top, spread throughout our coaching department, recruiting department, leaders and players. The last 5 years have been the result of the virus, and only now - with the right people back in place starting at the top in Peter Jackson and Glenn Bartlett, the right Coaches in Paul Roos and George Stone, a competent recruiting department headed by Jason Taylor and some strong leaders in Daniel Cross, Nathan Jones and Chris Dawes are we starting to see the wheel turn. The virus is slowly being flushed out. But it's still there in some capacity and Frawley is definitely one who is still carrying it. Sylvia has gone and is clearly still affected, a fault of his own and the environment he was brought up in. As for Frawley being voted in to the leadership group. That's something that even I question. I can only assume Roos didn't know the extent and complexity of the situation and as an 'experienced' KPP who had been on the list for a long time, Frawley was voted in by his team mates and obviously coaches. But I don't like that he is in it, not one bit. The sooner he is gone, the better in my eyes. We have the opportunity to further rid ourselves of the virus and the further the season has gone on, the more I reckon Roos would be noticing such things and thinking that we'll be better off as a club without Frawley.

Sylvia has all the footballing and natural ability in the world. Ability is not what he is limited by. It's his psychology and philosophy of life which are the true indicators of how little he's gotten out of his footballing career. Nothing more, nothing less.

Nutbean, it's just as amusing that every time in post about Frawley, yours is the next one in line. We can transfer this to the Frawley thread, but I do have a question: When you've seen Frawley play this year, have you seen anything to suggest that he lacks urgancy, heart or a desire to do everything he can to improve himself and our side? I certainly have and so have plenty of others that I've spoken to. This is coming from a member of our leadership group. And I think, whilst not as severe as Sylvia's lack of care or effort, it's there. It hangs around. It lurks. And it gives me a sick feeling in my stomach. Do you understand or get that the MFC need to rid themselves of any signs of that type of onfield behaviour? ESPECIALLY from a senior leader? I'm absolutely sure that PR would understand the whole thing is complex and players that have been around the MFC for 6 + years and who have a limited capacity to think may find it difficult to 'change' what have now become conditioned and ingrained training and playing habits. Frawley is another we must move on. For various reasons, but in my opinion the main one is that he still possesses a bit of the virus. No team within the AFL has dropped to the depths that we have over the past 5 years, nor have any displayed or given life to a culture and environment so toxic that the effects can still be seen in the way some players still carry themselves. That is all that matters here. Frawley will not change. And at our club, right now, at this point, we need players who haven't been part of that toxic bubble. Sure, Frawley is a great fullback. And he'd be absolutely perfect for a team that has a terrific set of leaders and a really strong and professional environment and culture. But for us, Frawley will continue to waft which will ultimately have an impact on the development of our younger players and will only prove harder for the MFC to completely break the shackles. Let him go, and the chance for further rejuvenation to our list and club is ten-fold. We'll have options to bring in a gun, bring in more quality through the draft or trade for a couple of handy additions that will add more to our club, environment and culture than what Frawley will.

No surprise really. He just can't seem to break the conditioning. I still see some bad habits in Frawley who has obviously been through the same environment as Col but hasn't got enough self-determination to break through it. Which is part of the reason I want him gone. We're trying to breed a new environment and strong culture at the MFC. Players who have been through below par environments and standards but don't respond to the raised standards themselves should really go. Frawley is in between. I remember posters banging on about 'losing an experienced player' in Col. What does that sentence even mean? Seriously.

Can't have everything unfortunately. Hogan, Dawes, Pederson and Watts would be damaging enough once we address our midfield.

Dream offseason: Malceski Shiel Tomlinson Brayshaw/Petracca Stretch

When was the ball not in his court?

I shoulda known..

Anyone got any info on how the big fella is traveling? I thought I remember reading that he'd potentially be okay to have a bit of a run with Casey after the bye? Or is that Misson bloke playing funny buggers again..

Malceski is 30 and Sydney obviously have a lot of planning and thinking to do with the transformation of their list. That includes moving some older players on as a means to get games into younger players as well as player payments etc. Was Chapman underrated because he was moved on by Geelong? Club > Individual

Underrated ? You having a laugh?

Frawley is a 26 year old experienced player who is in our leadership group. Wait, I'll repeat that. He's in an AFL club's leadership group. The group of players who are standard setters and are held accountable for their ability to guide, nurture and set the tone for the rest of the playing group as well as represent the club strongly on and off the field. For a player to 'explore their options within FA' is of course, completely understandable. For a senior player who is part of the leadership group of an AFL football club to 'explore their options within FA' is also understandable, however a more delicate and sensitive process to undertake as the care of duty that particular player needs to show is amplified by the fact that they are a senior leader of a football club. I repeat, a senior leader of a football club. Here are some statements made by Frawley's manager, Frawley himself and Josh Mahoney beginning from January, which is when James and his manager decided not to engage in contract discussions with the MFC. Jan 31st - Frawley's manager, Alex McDonald - ''James is keen to let the season take shape before we start focusing on contract discussions,'' McDonald said. ''The club has been in constant contact and updating James on where the club is at and their direction.'' ''We presented to James prior to Christmas and we are in talks with his management and are ready to talk to him, but James has indicated he wants to focus on training and playing at the moment and get a better idea of the direction of the club.'' Josh Mahoney 'Mahoney said Frawley had only indicated he wanted to wait before discussing contracts and had not said he wanted to wait until the end of the season. Players who put contract talks on hold until season's end early in the year often intend to leave for another club.' Feb 17th - Frawley on Roos' contract situation. ''Hopefully Roosy can sign for a few more years, that would be nice. Put it out there - Roos can sign for a few more years - he does, I will, done,'' Frawley said, seemingly only half in jest. ''Right now I am very happy at Melbourne … the club is in a good spot,'' he said. ''I am just going to concentrate on footy. I have plenty of time to make a decision and I think if we keep going the way we are … the contract will sort itself out.'' June 5th - Frawley on finals aspirations and loyalty "I want to make sure the club is heading in the right direction." "It (the lure of playing in a flag) plays a part, you always want to win and play finals," Frawley said. "I've been here [at Melbourne] eight years and haven't played any finals and haven't got close really. It'd be great to play finals. “At this club we've seen massive improvement over the last few years and if we keep going in the right trend, we'll hopefully be playing finals really soon." (What on earth is that last comment?) "I think being a country boy, loyalty is a massive thing," he said. So, as we can see Nutbean. There are clearly mixed messages. Whether it's his manager's fault or his own, it still reflects poorly on him as a senior leader of our side. He has also clearly set himself up by saying stupid and thoughtless things such as, "I think being a country boy, loyalty is a massive thing' as well as 'If Roosy can sign for a few more years, I will.' From the first time he put contract talks on hold, he never stated that he'd decide at the end of the year. He said he wanted to see how the club went and what direction it was going in. Well guess what. It's clear we're on the up. Roos has now signed for a third year. The loyalty comment and the finals football comment were almost automated pieces of dribble without a single thought of what the consequences might be if he in fact decides to go. And on top of all of this, myself and plenty of other supporters have been very disappointed with some of the efforts from Frawley during games this year. Some of his on-field actions as a senior leader have been Sylvia-esque-like. Myself and any other MFC supporter have every right to be disappointed in the manner in which a senior leader of our club has gone about 'exploring his options'. I am extremely hopeful he goes as the only way we're going to keep improving is if everyone is onboard and gives their all for this club both on the field and off it. And Frawley, as a senior leader who is expected to help drive this club forward has been questionable in both aspects this year.

Your obstinate determination to swing this your way is unbelievable. To the point where you're telling me I'm diminishing the rights of players to explore their options? Haha I don't care which way you try and spin it RPFC. I also don't care what you believe the 'bigger cliches' to be. The simple fact is, it's a cliched phrase. There's no more to argue.

In what context is it in it's infancy? Everyone understands that players 'have the right to explore their options'. Everyone. Throwaway lines like that are becoming clichèd because they're frequently repeated phrases. The very definition of the word clichéd. And they state what everyone already knows fcs. Why you're arguing this, I have no idea.

Um, I think you've just answered it with that post.

There's one on the 'players to target' thread which you're yet to respond to. Interestingly enough.

There's so much more to be said about this Frawley issue. There are complexities to it that supporters seem to just brush over. But as Ron has already pointed out, it's almost pointless to elaborate on such issues as the general Demonland populous seem to continuously spit out the, 'OMG Frawley has every right to explore FA...' (Add any other cliche you like). Which isn't the [censored] point.

FWIW thanks Damo. Big ups.