RedBlueandTrue

All truth from Clayton here, I see nothing wrong. Play on.

Yeah I just don't really agree - I think it was the right decision to offer the contracts and if you get a different roll we win a flag and everything's a whole lot better now. I think we were always going to struggle with our contract situation after having a crack at the flag and this would've been considered at the time when the contracts were offered but deemed worth it for a crack at multiple flags. You don't win flags without gun players. Would've been hard to get guys like Lever and May without offering overs in terms of length, doubt we win one without them. Are 5 year deals ok? Were pretty long at the time. Claz and Trac are not far off standard for players of their levels these days. Clearly it hasn't worked for Clarry but I really don't see how we could've ever competed without offering longer contracts than the opposition. I'd love to see how many premierships we win on average from 22-24 if you could simulate it a million times. I sure as hell agree with you that we need to draft well to be any chance of competing ever!

Tbh i think bigger chance in a world where we don't offer long contracts Trac is gone at the end of 22 and we're a bit further away while he wins a premiership with the pies lol. We'll never know. Selfishness and immaturity? Were they immature to negotiate deals that could set them up for life? Selfish to ask for so much? They're just people trying to look after themselves. I get that you would've just let them go to other clubs and used the picks to draft some more kids but I don't see how that gets you closer to a flag when those kids are getting offers for longer deals at better clubs down the track.

I guess I just don't really see an alternative. Draft stars and hope they're willing to sacrifice better lifestyle options because they've fallen in love with the club? I think those days are gone. Maybe the last couple of years have just left me a little pessimistic. It hasn't worked out for Clarry but I'm glad we had Trac locked in and could extract maximum value! I also believe we were close in 22 and right in it in 23 and you don't get those opportunities if the gun players aren't kept happy. If we can get a home locked in so many of our issues will disappear overnight... can only wait and cross fingers

With our lack of a home base and being a smaller club, we are one of the least attractive teams for anyone looking to join. Anyone wanting to be in Melbourne will try and go to almost any other Melbourne-based team before us, with the exception of maybe North. Until this changes we have to offer long contracts to good players to be competitive - just the way it is. No one is driving to Casey if they have a choice unless there's a significant financial incentive.

its about understanding the value of the pick relative to other years. In a year with less academy/fs a pick will have more value because you have access to more of the finite higher quality players. Because X of the perceived higher quality players are tied up and inaccessible, the value of the pick drops. In reality all drafts are different and you can't really judge the value of the pick until years down the line.

Yeah, no I agree with you - my point is that Trac's actual trade value is very small compared to what might be expected for these reasons. Cerra just an example from the post I quoted.

Agree, if carlton were to take on his whole contract, I wouldn't be surprised if their first round was all that was offered. Someone like Cerra could be involved, but only by necessity to clear cap space. 2 first rounders+ is dreamworld with his age and uncertainty around his response to the injury. If we paid a significant chunk of salary then trade options would open up a bit.

He broke a toe doing that, not his knee. Also he was a child when that happened lol, not sure on the relevance

I find that Barrett article disgusting. One thing for us fans to have opinions without knowing the full story but for a brazen character attack like that to come from the AFL media is vile. Doesn't even matter if there might elements of truth, Trac has been one of our own and is clearly going through some sort of identity crisis in the wake of his life threatening injury. R U ok day in 2 weeks. Can't see how anything he's done has justified that trash.

Completely agree. Worth 2 top 10 picks at his best but there is no guarantee he gets anywhere near that again. If there's a single top 10 pick on any table I think the club will seriously consider it. After his ordeal, any club would be taking a huge risk with his contract. I can see a reality where we end up paying a significant portion of his contract if he does move...

My friend, I am pleased to say I cannot disagree more! So many of our players have scope for improvement! Not to say they all will, but there is so much potential. Even in the ones we might not expect - look at TMac. I expect natural progression from: JVR, Turner, Judd, Kolt, Windsor, AMW, Howes, Kynan, Taj and Jefferson. One or two of our other rookies may also come on. To a lesser extent I would include; Rivers, Pickett and Chandler. I think the following players have either been down or unavailable for different reasons and are a chance to either improve dramatically, play a critical role or regain their best form: Oliver, Spargo, Laurie, Petty, Sparrow, Bowey, McAdam, Melksham and Salem. They won't all improve but I think a lot will. We've got a great and underrated bunch! So excited to see how they all go in the years to come.

I'd argue that cogs and in particular Kelly are huge outs. Certainly agree we were far from our optimal team, but they still had very good players not playing. Briggs was also clearly very hampered too. Certainly we could've won the game at the end with more luck. With less luck though we could've lost by a lot more! They left one one on the park with an all-time blooper. I think we did very well with the team we had but I still believe the better team on the night won.

It was very sad to not win. Was absolutely gutted afterwards. In the light of day though I'm still proud of the performance. GWS were far from full strength but still have a lot of class and grit. It was great to see Oli playing with some more confidence and skill in the first half, but unfortunately spent most of his tickets. I didn't expect to win and they had a really good crack. Unfortunate reality is that in Brayshaw, Petracca, Salem, Tommo, Hunter, McAdam, Spargo, Smith and Brown a large chunk of our salary cap has been unavailable or inefficiently utilised this season. Another chunk is clearly hampered without a fitness base. Call it bad list management or bad luck, it's the reality and has made it virtually impossible to play at the required level consistently. I think we've taken necessary calculated risks that for most of the last 3 years have paid off but this year we have clearly been off the pace from a talent perspective. This has given some opportunity to younger players who have shown a lot of promise, but are still young. I am super excited about what this group can do and will be very interested this off-season. Love my Dees. The journey continues!

Agree with you completely. LDU is incredible, agility of Trac (without the same raw power and flair) and Pendle's presence of mind in traffic. Would LOVE him with us but I think it would be a very poor move to leave North. Will be as competitive as any soon. Jonesy gave a speech to them a few months ago and I reckon he got in LDU's ear about the value of loyalty.

I think the manner of the defeats to Freo change perspectives a bit. If they had both been close losses then everything would be a bit more rosy, not only because of percentage. It is funny though, if we are to bounce back this week we'll actually be tracking pretty similarly to the darling Hawks - who got done in similar fashion to us a few weeks ago. The fact that it's so open with so many teams in it means that if you get on a roll, top 4 is still open for most. The downside is that a few losses in a row and finals is likely lost completely. With all teams being so close, the fact that we are missing Trac, have Gawn looking a bit proppy and Oliver perhaps not at his game-breaking best creates a feeling that maybe to compete with those other teams would be a bridge too far. A good win against GWS and the mentality will switch again completely!

I see don't really see lower 'effort' instances. Maybe less consistency of concentration, but I think fitness underpins that too. Maybe that's the same thing anyway. It's a general interpretation thing for me though, I feel that the AFL world jumps to a 'lack of effort' when I think it's more often some combination of concentration, method and fitness issues. Lack of effort implies a character flaw which for me means a player would be very unlikely to make it at AFL level. I think when these instances occur, 9/10 times the effort is there, but it can either be misguided or caused by a lack of concentration in the moment. With lack of fitness, method and concentration drop off. Sorry to ramble, just find the effort discussion interesting. My point is that I believe perceived lacks of effort often come down to fitness and confidence in method and I believe Clarry will be able to regain these traits along with his explosiveness if he can get a really good run at a preseason. I can't see a situation where we would be fairly compensated draft-wise for him so don't think we could ever get a good trade/wage outcome (obviously with the caveat that I can't judge any internal cohesion matters other than what my eyes tell me).

I guess I see reasons rather than excuses. Didn't miss the entire pre-season but it was certainly very interrupted. I reckon if he hadn't had that hand surgery he'd be closer as well, thought he was still looking a class above at times early. Has still managed a decent output despite these issues for mine, even if the flair we're used to hasn't been there to the same degree or as consistently.

Wish it was this simple mate. Unfortunately during the season you have to prioritise recovery. Means that maintenance of fitness level is really the go - outside of the L word or the 6-8 week 'mini' pre seasons that we sometimes see. Your pre-season sets up your year. Talked to a mate about this recently who played at a high level. He missed a month or so of preseason once and said he couldn't get near it for the rest of the year, eventually his body broke down before the end as well. Full preseason the year after and he was back to his best. Feel free to take with a grain of salt as it's just a one-off anecdote. I fully expect it's the same for our boy though.

Absolutely love this. Have no doubt that his foot issues destroying his preseason and confidence in his leap have caused most of his issues. I know most will want him returned to defence but I think he'll surprise a few and come on strongly as a forward yet. Go Petts!

Don't think any of them make much of a difference to anything yesterday. Naismith maybe? Might've just got injured for us too. Goldy? Might've been a worse outcome having him trudging around. As if we weren't flat-footed enough. Certainly would've liked Moyle out there but how long is he going to be a backup for. I of course hope we can get someone like him for our next roll of the dice!

Freo looked fantastic. We lacked concentration and class all over the field. Would've loved a win, but our youthful resurgence was probably due for this. No answer for Darcy and the raw running power of their midfield. They really have an incredible group in there. If they can keep everyone together they're going to be very strong for a long time. I have no less excitement for 2025 though. We have so much talent to either come in or that I would expect to improve. Such a tight and strong competition. I really think this is the strongest it has been in my time following footy. So many teams full of guns. Has looked very unlikely for us for a while now but will still enjoy our games week by week and hope we can give ourselves the best chance to be amongst it next year.

Yup, agree with this. If he needs any further surgeries I really hope they can do them early to give him the best chance of a good preseason. Partly wonder if it's psychological too - been kicked very hard in the hard a few times now, would surely cause some unconcious hesitancy (similar worry over situation with Petty's foot).

We took a speculative low-cost risk on Fullarton hoping he could become something he clearly hasn't yet. We traded pick 47 in a supposed 'shallow' draft for him, not a first rounder. Clearly hasn't come on as we hoped but was who we believed to be best available for our needs at the pick and within our wage budget. Would I like a Lloyd Meek who can come in and fill a need? Of course. But even if we have one, come the end of the year we're rebalancing our cap and working out who we need to let go to pay our back up ruck an above average wage. Lists will always have holes due to the nature of the salary cap, backup ruck is one for us. Can only fill these holes by taking calculated risks that sometimes work and sometimes don't. I'm excited to see what we do this off-season but won't be at all surprised if we have the same issues next year as you just can't afford to pay a backup ruck anything other than minimum and Gawn needs to be first ruck.

Don't think it's changed, at least not recently. Maybe 20 or 30 years ago. Player picks up ball and makes effective disposal = brain happy point score high (too much supercoach)